(Yes,don't all fall over.....I'm attempting some 'proper' training as opposed to teaching him how to get his treats out of his windmill toy!) Ok,needing help already.I've got all the hot Summer months to work on this so I'd like to get it as good as we can,ideally being able to send him back using my left and right hand and him turning the appropriate way.I can't find anything written up on here or Totally Gundogs...has anyone seen an article that I've missed or have any advice?Im probably being way too advanced and it's not vital,but like I say I've got time to practice so it would be a shame to muck it up and then it be too tricky for me to trouble shoot later! Thankyou xxx
Good on you! Start with sending him right and left, and slowly move his dummy or whatever further behind. So start at nine o'clock and three o'clock for the dummies, and slowly move them back to ten o'clock and two o'clock, then eleven o'clock and one o'clock... Eventually you can put the dummy directly behind him. You will probably find he just learns to turn over whichever shoulder you want, depending which hand you are using. I never trained that on purpose with Poppy, she just sort of learnt it through experience...
Thanks Karen so I should get a good solid right and left and then start to get the left and right back? Poppy is a legend ,but I bet you are really clear with her. Great suggestion,thankyou x
Yes, I think I would start with left and right, and then move on to the back cast. I had no idea what I was doing when I started training with Poppy; I think she learnt things DESPITE me! But I found the Gun Dog Club training manuals to be really super and helpful - they are set up very systematically and methodically, so if you follow the steps you can't really go wrong.
Ha, how strange, I decided yesterday I was going to teach casting to my two as well! I found an article 'Handling Your Gundog - teaching the 4 Casts' on Totally Gundogs, sorry I can't post the link as I am technically inept. We started yesterday, they both really really enjoyed it, and I did too, Brods is so funny when he is learning something new, he has the best I Am Concentrating Hard face when learning new things....he seems to make his ears go long and had this very earnest expression on....We are only at the stage of casting back with them at close range to me, and the dummy max 15 feet away, with an almost instant cast back after the dummy is thrown, but they seemed to grasp these early steps quickly. I will no doubt be posting when we start to advance though... Looking forward to hearing how you and Dexter get on!
I started this the other day too! We'd been working towards blinds and him understanding and trusting my "out" command. Started doing a bit of steadiness: throwing a dummy to his left/right making him sit while I collected it. Then added the point and "out" command, to either left or right (usually the one he wasn't pretending not to concentrate on!). Then when I was happy he was really steady, which has taken a couple of weeks, I threw a dummy over his head. And gave "go back" command. I'm now putting a dummy left/right and one behind to really make sure he gets it. We on,y just started a couple of days ago, but I think now he understands he has to wait for a command and knows what each one means, it seems to be working. Obviously we do have our moments like earlier today when he tried to collect all three 1lb dummies; left, right and behind in succession. Not sure how to stop that one yet!
I think you are going a bit too fast, Jaymz. Go back to just putting one dummy out at a time; then two out to the sides, then again one out at the back. Putting out three dummies for a young dog is going to encourage 'dummy shopping' (and believe me, I know, because I have an avid dummy shopper).
Haha, what a great expression, dummy shopping! Yeah I'd already guessed I was going too fast but just wanted to see how he would cope with multiple dummies. I'll reign it back in and get the basics really firm. Thanks
I've probably done 4 sessions in my hall since I started this thread.Dex is steady to my throwing dummies right and left and I can stand in front of him,take a step back and throw one over him slowly.Ive lost my nerve a bit in case he jumps up again though so I am finding myself telling him to 'wait' I guess that's not the end of the world though ..... We have also been using one dummy and me sending him left and right.Ive done that with 2 mats too and he is steady as ( in my hall ) I haven't tried it with 2 dummys yet though......we go at things very slowly and methodically except this...... Before I tried the really unexciting throw over his head I was placing a dummy behind him......then walking away from him the length of my hall and sending him for it.....he's only turning the right way EVERY time I send him!!Im so delighted! It might be a fluke so we've got plenty more practice to do and as I said I'm not rushing this but I feel like we've started well. Just an aside I'm hammering home my stop whistle too ,whistle is round my neck all the time ,I even forgot and went back to bed with it on this morning.....determined to make progress with that over the Summer x
Any advice very welcome...... I'm running into problems over verbal cues....I'll try not to waffle so you understand me. What we can do : 1.Throw dummies all around him and he stays still,cautiously I can throw one over his head Good 2. He can sit at heel and run forward to sit on a mat directly in front of him 3. He can sit directly in front of me looking at me and I can send him to sit on a mat behind him. For both 2 and 3 I have introduced the hand signal that looks like a stop but I push forward and I say 'Back' So I have trained him to to go and sit on a mat to a hand signal and verbal cue. To ask Dexter to retreive I always say 'Fetch it' and do an exaggerated point in the direction of the item thrown. I've just put the mat away,dropped a dummy in the hall,walked him away from it on heel ,sat him up in front of me and said 'Back' He looks round,sees a dummy but no mat to go and sit on so just sits looking at me.So I say 'Fetch it' and off he goes...... Question : Shall I just scrap the mat for doing the back cast and use a dummy,that way I don't need to say 'back' I can just say 'fetch it' and he will know what to do? Similarly for left and right ( those were the verbal cues I was going to use just to stop me getting muddled) If I use the mat he is going to learn a verbal cue and handsignal to go and sit on a mat to my left and right,I think the mats are confusing me. Sorry don't mean to break anyone's brain. I've used the Jo Lauren's video so far from http://thelabradorforum.com/forum/need-help-with-your-labrador/labrador-training/11023-place-boards And we are up to where she introduces the 3 mats and I've stopped.....because it's to music I can't tell what she is saying to Moye because of the music! The Gundog Trust is on holiday until 24 th ,I might be better waiting until I've got Grades 2 and 3 and working through the book,I can flick back and forth to what I need..... Poor Dexter,he's so willing and despite my gaffs I think he's enjoying it !.......
I think you have got two different methods together here - you are using both mats and dummies. It would be better to use one or the other. With mats (my boards), I didn't introduce dummies (or my final verbal cue) until after he could follow the visual and temporary cue without the boards. The mats (boards) have to be faded out. I haven't quite finished this yet but I have faded the mats over short distances in familiar locations. Outside, I'm still using the boards (obviously things are on hold at the minute) and I need to get more distance before I'll fade them completely. Once Charlie will run out to my final distance, he will simply find a dummy instead of the board (he won't be able to see either when he sets off).
Just to complicate matters for you, I don't use place boards or mats for the back cast or left and rights. I have been shown something that works much better - food bowls. I use the same cues, same hand signals as I would with a real retrieve, the dog runs out, gets its nose down and finds a mega reward in the form of tasty food in its bowl. When that beaviour is accurate in all sorts of different environments and the dog runs fast and in straight lines each and every time I switch the food bowl for a dummy. No fading out of place boards, no changing of cues or hand signals. Very simple and very, very effective.
I think food bowls are a great idea. I have to say, that wasn't the case when I tried using them on Wimbledon Common though. We quickly had guests.... I was very popular with a huge number of dogs!
I think these are the relevant articles Angela The four casts Back cast step 1 Good luck with your training
