Not sure if this the right place but couldn't see where else to post about diet........ Anyway one of the suggestions from the specialist for Juno was for her to have a supplement of Glucosamine and Chondroitin to manage the osteo-arthritis connected with her elbow fragmentation. When discussing with my vet when collecting Juno after surgery yesterday she has suggested the Hill's Veterinary Prescription j/d which contains both which would be preferable to a daily pill. The specialist says that Hill's is the best diet for ne but that it contains a lot of fat so her weight would have to monitored even more, as I've been advised to keep her on the slim side to reduce any stress on her joints. Does anyone have any experience of the Hill's diet for joints or a comparative product. Has weight management been an issue? Many thanks
Re: The right diet I don't have any experience of that particular food, but as long as the nutritional requirements are being met, weight management is simply a case of controlling the amount. Protein and carbohydrates are both 4 calories per gram and fat is 9 calories per gram, so gram for gram a higher fat diet is more calorific. However, fat is also very highly satiating, so they don't need as much to feel full (not that a lab will ever tell you she feels full!). So don't worry so much if it looks like you're feeding less than you were on a different food - as long as she's getting the right amount of calories, she won't put on weight. If she starts to look a little heavy, simply cut the amount you're giving her.
Re: The right diet Hi, This may not answer your question, but I feed Otis nutriment, which is a really convenient way to feed raw. It comes frozen in trays, which you defrost overnight. It is minces of chicken beef lamb turkey salmon and offal. They also sell bones and treats. They are mail order and deliver overnight. The minces have bone in them , also oils and veggies. It is a really great food, and I think far superior to any kibble, even prescriptive ones. They have a great customer service, and website, so can give you any information you may need. Maggie x
Re: The right diet I have to manage Sams fats carefully as he has an intolerance to fats , the base of his food is Skinners Field and Trial duck and rice . I was advised to administer Glucosamine with Chondroitin as a precaution against arthritis as Sam is a big ( not fat but big ! ) dog , this food already contains G&C , so is ideal
Re: The right diet Thanks for the replies, I'll look into the Skinners Field and Trial and see if I can get it delivered to us here jn France as it's not something I can buy locally
Re: The right diet If Amazon deliver to France, and they did when I lived there , you can buy through Amazon as a very good price too
Re: The right diet vetuk.co.uk deliver to France, too. I'm not sure how their prices compare to Amazon, but worth a look. And, not for that food, because they don't sell it, but zooplus.fr are also worth a look if there's anything else you need
Re: The right diet Charlie is on supplements, to hopefully delay arthritis in his knee joint (although I'm going ask the vet about cartrophen next time I go). I found it difficult for some foods, to find out exactly how much supplements they contain - including for Hill's (I still don't know, but it might be fine of course, I just couldn't easily find the information). Whereas with the supplements, it was easier to find out how much I was giving and to discuss with the orthopedic surgeon how much was needed to potentially make a difference (the answer is "a lot" but be aware that it's not proven to help anyway). The advantage of giving separate supplements, of course, is that they stay the same regardless of the volume of food you feed. So, for example, when I'm on a clicker training course I won't feed much kibble at all. If I were dependent on giving the supplements in kibble, Charlie would miss out that week. So Charlie has 475mg of glucosamine, 200mg of chrondrotin, 200mg dexahan. This was trebled for the first six weeks after his op. This is about the same amount as a human would take in an average supplement although half the amount that my physio recommends for my knee!
Re: The right diet My Lab broke his elbow aged 16 weeks and it was pinned and screwed. By the time he was 8 months and allowed to live a normal live, the final x-ray showed he had arthritis in that elbow. The orthopaedic vet prescribed Synoquin EFA which he has been on ever since, he is now almost 9 years old and shows no sign of lameness or pain. He is fed on a mixture of Burgess Sensitive Lamb and Rice and raw food. I don't think the additives of chondroitin and Glucosamine in for example Skinners, is quite sufficient if you already have a problem.
Re: The right diet There is info here on prescription diet for dogs you might find interesting.. http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0662/prescription-diet-jd-dry http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/articles/prescription-veterinary-diets.php Does make me wonder whether a high quality food, coupled with a pharmaceutical grade supplement might be an option worth considering.? We are now looking into joint supplements for our older lab, who does get a bit stiff bless him, obviously though every dog is different.
Re: The right diet It's so hard to know what to do and what is best. I haven't fried amazon for delivery of pet food as I've found that by he time I've paid the delivery charge it can nearly have doubled the price of the item ordered and I an't always get the same thing from the French website. I've also used VetUk and/or Vetfr, zooplus from the UK website (paying on the French site is too problematic). My latest favourite is Viovet.co.uk and have fond them very good and very reasonable for delivery. The other problem is the delivery companies some of them use who insist my address is incorrect and I end up chasing my parcel half way across Normandy
Re: The right diet I honestly believe that the single most effective thing you can do to guard against arthritis is to keep your dog thin. Then, make sure exercise is appropriate - sufficient, of an appropriate type and avoids excess stress on vulnerable joints. And take care to minimise day to day regular impacts (eg jumping out of cars). If you can incorporate non weight bearing exercise in the form of hydrotherapy, that's ideal (swimming in rivers and the sea is not likely to be as effective as a structured hydrotherapy programme). After that, supplements including Glucosamine & Chondroitin might help. But not necessarily. If they are comfortably within your budget, and since they are highly likely to be safe, then you could give them. Massage can be a great way to bond with your dogs, could be enjoyable, but probably doesn't make a big difference. It might be comforting, and help mild stiffness wear off. If your dog is in any pain, of course, then you have to be guided by your vet in terms of what drugs might ease discomfort.
Re: The right diet I would talk to your vet about Pentosan or Cartrophen (same thing) which assists in the reformation of cartilage and joint fluid. It's something we used for our old dog, Nicolae, and it helped him a lot with arthritis when he started to get a bit older. He improved quite markedly. Personally I would be going for something like this, not dietary supplements that have not been proven to work. That sort of thing won't hurt, but it may not help either (and is not necessarily cheap...). Slimness will definitely help
Re: The right diet [quote author=Oberon link=topic=10177.msg149287#msg149287 date=1426279032] I would talk to your vet about Pentosan or Cartrophen (same thing) which assists in the reformation of cartilage and joint fluid. [/quote] I do think this might not be commonly used in the UK and Europe, compared to in the States and Australia - although might be mistaken. It's not something that has ever been suggested as something for Charlie as a precaution (rather than treatment if he shows discomfort). After reading about it, I've made an appointment with the vet next week to discuss whether it would help as a preventative.
Re: The right diet Yes, I think that is true Julie. It's been used in Australia for decades (dogs, horses) and somewhat more recently the Americans have taken it up. My vet says that 90% of people see an improvement, 5% aren't sure and 5% see no change. This is in animals that have been diagnosed with arthritis. We most definitely saw an improvement in our Nicolae after the second injection (given as a weekly course for a month then monthly to maintain, though some can get away with less often). Even Obi has been on it as a preventative.
Re: The right diet Cartrophen has been used in UK for years. It did not help my old GSP at all. May be worth trying though.
Re: The right diet I'm a bit bemused about why I haven't been offered it - I mean, it's not like I haven't grilled enough orthopeadic vets about everything and anything that might help Charlie.... Oh well, I'll give them another grilling on it, and see what they say...
Re: The right diet My old lab had cartrophen injections. I injected him as it had to be given on the same day each week for, I think, four weeks. He was 14 when he had it but it really seemed to make a difference. The other supplement he was given was nutraquin + This is expensive and only available from the vet, or at least it was. It is glucosamine, chondroitin,vitamin C, zinc and boswellia. Again this probably would've helped more had he had it younger but he appeared to improve, certainly less stiffness.
Re: The right diet Stacia, it is a pity that it did not help your dog. Not everyone sees an improvement. I think that in some cases people find they have to give it more regularly than the standard as well. But, because it is common here, I know quite a few people who have used it for dogs and horses and the majority report improvement on the normal dose. Can take a few weeks to kick in though. My vet loves it and says she'd put all her patients on it if it wasn't so expensive.... Despite that it's not a cure-all. Julie, I'd be interested in why it hasn't been recommended for Charlie. Maybe because he doesn't have any arthritic changes yet and they only prescribe it if there are changes? As I mentioned, we gave it to Obi as a preventative - but that doesn't mean there are studies to support its use in that way.
