Re: This gundog lark... Julie we didn't learn anything new ....but I wasn't expecting too....it was your usual sit,lie down,stand ........Dexter can do all of that,I wanted to attend because I have just been struggling to get him to focus on me when we are close up to other dogs.I was facing similar issues as you .....there you are are doing your best to keep your dog still and focused before he is released to play and the other owners just let their dog lunge at yours ....and it wrecks the practice opportunity,so improvement in this area wasnt happening.I'm also finding that the lovely people that let you practice and cooperate ,only have a certain amount of time as they want to get their dog walked.........AND what I am also finding is that Dexter only needs to practice a couple of times with the well behaved dogs and he gets it.....it's around the untrained mischief ones that we need to improve......so im thinking the bigger variety of dogs i can expose him to in a controlled environment might assist that next step forward to succeeding around the scamps in the park.I think Dexter is a victim of 'Peer Pressure' ;D
Re: This gundog lark... One thing that the trainer pointed out to me and made an instant difference is....I hold rewards in my hand and he looks at the food....she told me to get in the habit of holding the food behind my back...instantly his eye contact was on me.....that might sound simple and obvious but duffer me doing it all for the first time just hasn't realised! X
Re: This gundog lark... Thats interesting Angela. Our tip was to hold the treat at least in the early stages up towards your chin or face to get the eye contact. I suppose it depends of what level of focus you are looking for.
Re: This gundog lark... I did do that initially Jacqui....from watching someone quite well known on YouTube...( not sure if I'm allowed to say who ?)...last night the trainer said he does actually listen to you and look at you,if he can't see the food ??? Dex IS too food focused ,I know that and its my fault,I reduce reward value but for some things not frequency :-[.....I guess in the really early stages it was my lack of confidence,my thought process being well,he's just a pet,its not like we are ever going to be doing trials or working so if I can get him to do it for food .....well,he's doing it!im more aware now so will work on myself as much as with Dexter ???
Re: This gundog lark... Angela - I am exactly the same. Charlie still gets kibble for things he knows well. Even having a wee for goodness sake!
Re: This gundog lark... We do classes for exactly the same reason....focus amongst a group of other dogs that are all under some kind of control. Although last night there were a few bids for freedom Riley did well except when I rushed a split retrieve when he headed for the wrong dummy. The verbal brakes worked though which was nice and we started again. He was very keen to meet all the other dogs though so his obedience in amongst the other dogs was our biggest challenge :
Re: This gundog lark... Angela, I'm really pleased for you that you found the class worthwhile. I know it was what you call 'basic stuff', but as you say the main thing is to get Dexter to concentrate on you while there are distractions around. What a horrible story about the first trainer! Goodness, cant imagine what I would do if someone kicked my dog, in my house...
Re: This gundog lark... Our training yesterday evening was great. It was so nice to be back with the others again! The dogs were DELIGHTED to see each other! And the humans all shared big hugs too... On the whole I was pleased with Poppy. She is a lot steadier than she was two months ago (A LOT steadier, in fact!), and didn't run in once, or try to chase other dogs' retrieves. Very chuffed about that. But she is still very excited by the sight and smell of dummies. She finds walking to heel during the walk-up difficult, and we are just starting to learn about pointing her in the right direction. Like Riley, she headed off after the wrong dummy during a split retrieve, and I think a couple of the exercises were too complicated for her - for instance, there was a dummy out in the middle of the field next to a marking post, that had been thrown there 15 minutes earlier. A second dummy was thrown closer to us, and she was supposed to follow my instructions out to the marker, ignoring the second, closer dummy. That didn't go too well at first - but with the help of the trainer I was able to redirect her, and eventually she did find the original one, bring it back to me, and then go out to the second dummy and bring that back too... It was a little disheartening to me in some ways because the others have all been training like crazy over the summer, while I have been out of action, and so they are further along than we are. But I shall make good use of my son being here, to act as helper in dummy throwing so we can practice sending Poppy back etc... Phew, we were both exhausted at the end of the evening. It was a glorious evening too - cloudless sky, 25 degrees, fabulous view over the Frankfurt skyline... The dogs celebrated the end of the training session by CHARGING around the field together in the dusk!! It was actually a lovely session, and yes I did count my blessings.
Re: This gundog lark... You both ,Karen and Barbara sound like you really enjoy it and have found fantastic classes to develop your dogs.It sounds like another world to me .not just the facilities and activities....the actual level you are at!!!Dont feel down Karen,you will catch up and it sounds like a lovely group and trainer that will help you do that,Poppy is a clever girl too ;D When I get back we will continue our stop whistle work and of course our recall ;D and I have ordered a rabbit skin tennis ball and dummy to see if i can get him interested in retrieving......he's really ambivalent...a yellow squeaky ball worked for a couple of walks last week,then there is zero interest so it's been put away for now.ill never pressure him,it's just like you say Julie to have something to make walks more interesting......or maybe to replace the food rewards :
Re: This gundog lark... I definitely enjoy it, it's fun and also nice to get some help and guidance on what to do next. As a first time dog owner I think it's easy to get the pace of progression wrong - push too hard or not push enough - both of which can spoil the work you've put in so far. It also gives me more confidence to trust in Riley's natural ability. I had a real lightbulb moment on a training weekend, watching 6 month old HPRs and spaniels naturally hunting through the woods, I realised all that ability was there already all we were trying to do was harness it and place commands around it. Then Riley did a long memory retrieve round some corners, over a bank and a small stream. I never thought he'd do it but he went haring out and raced back - so pleased with himself and I was thrilled! It was then I really decided I owed him the time and effort to make the most of what we had Blimey that was a bit gushy! Thought you might like to know why we do it though 8) If you saw Riley retrieve a normal dummy on flat grass from about 5 metres you would never think he's a decent retriever. He gets bored really easily and knows there are more fun things out there like smells, things to wee against and best of all other dogs. He really can go though when he's focussed and it's interesting and fun. After we had a big hiccup and his retrieving went massively downhill I spent a lot of money on various dummies (best of which was the amazing rabbitskin) and we did a very small amount of playing. I played a lot until he was raging to join in then he got a few chases of a rabbit skin ball and then I played some more without letting him join in. He probably only got a couple of chases every other day for a couple of weeks. It definitely increased his desire to retrieve. We also found little bits of long grass and light cover and I would throw tennis balls in for him to hunt out - you could use anything, cuddly toy, pair of socks. All this was a great big game and there were few rules Apologies if you've heard or tried all that before just thought I'd share what we did when we were close to giving up on retrieving ;D
Re: This gundog lark... No thankyou Barbara,I really appreciate it....it has always felt something too expert for me to consider....it hasn't been a priority,if he chased a ball great,if he didn't well that was fine as well,but i dont want our walks to be the same old thing.What you say makes sense....when we play Find It in the house he goes mad to go and find the item......we get harder and harder until we are nearly in another room....that's what I need to transfer to outside ....when we are out I find a flat area and just throw the ball,if its something he's interested in he'll do it twice,so that's when I should try making it more interesting .i just thought he needed 'teaching' and to get it right id have to start working up,step by step like total recall....I'm such a by the book girl!i bet he's the best blummin retriever ever and as usual I'm holding him back with ineptitude...poor dog,we'll get there! Thanks for your post x
Re: This gundog lark... Sounds like Dexter's all retriever to me ;D you just need the right route to tap into it. I do find it's a tricky balance because, you're absolutely right, the initial learning bit should be with a simple example. What I try to do is mix up what I ask him to do. For example: We'll do a retrieve, then we'll do some heelwork and sits (running round like a loon changing direction), then we might do another retrieve. I think they learn faster than we do It can be tempting to re-do stuff until they get it exactly right but that really doesn't work for us. If somethings not working I have to break it down into smaller, easier to achieve pieces or I have to find a way to make it a game. Once we'd reworked Riley's retrieve with a rabbit dummy he was being picky about what he'd retrieve (they should go for whatever you send them for) so we ran round the garden together with me passing him different dummies to carry, as long as he was running he'd carry most things. This got him used to different things in his mouth but created another problem - stop running=drop what you've got in your mouth. Sooooo we varied the speed while he was carrying eventually allowing us to stop without him spitting out the dummy (and I learned to keep my hands out of the way after being told off for over-eagerness to take the dummy) This is by no means the right way to do things but hopefully you can see how we broke things down and tried to find ways round problems that suited us. We're a looooooong way from perfect and we still have times when Riley looks at the dummy as if to say "what do you want me to do with that!?" then I just wait and we don't do anything else til he picks it up and gives it to me. I only do that now because I know that he knows what he's supposed to do he's just being a pain(I wouldn't have taken this approach 6 or even 3 months ago). Then when he's done it we go and do something else fun and come back to retrieving later or even another day.
Re: This gundog lark... Well, we had the BEST time! The trainer was as lovely as he had sounded on the phone - not a nose bopping type of person at all. He was just great, really, really, great. Charlie even got a cuddle. Charlie was excited, and as soon as we walked into the field, and the chap put his bag down, Charlie dived into it and nicked a rabbit skin dummy. Then demonstrated to the trainer that he was wise to this "swap it for something more interesting" lark, and wasn't giving it back just because a feather was waved around. Anyway, a bit of roast beef did it, as usual. Then we had a LONG talk about how I needed to be a bit firmer with Charlie. :-[ Anyway, then we showed off our recall - and the trainer said one was "perfect" when Charlie disappeared into the next field after sheep :-[ but came tearing back and skidded to a sit on his recall signal . Yay! And the trainer told me to drop my verbal commands, as Charlie has definitely got the whistle. We tried and failed to show off the beginnings of our stop whistle, as Charlie wasn't playing, which the trainer wasn't that impressed by... but said it was good we'd made a start at least. More talking about me being a bit firmer with Charlie (theme developing here...). Moving on to retrieves - which was the super exciting bit, and the reason both Charlie and I were there. Charlie jumped ALL over the trainer when he got the dummies out. :-[ More talking about me being a bit firmer with Charlie.... We played around with the dummies, and the trainer said that Charlie was not allowed to run after the dummies when they got thrown - and Charlie wasn't allowed to run after stuff any more without being told. So he had to sit. Which was VERY difficult for him! I was very worried about this, because I thought Charlie would lose interest not being able to chase stuff. Exact opposite! Charlie was quivering with excitement! And ran faster than ever when he was allowed to go "fetch". He first got to do a "seen blind retrieve" of about 60m - which he did very enthusiastically, tail wagging madly, big grin when he found it. But it wasn't difficult at all because it was on short grass. Was just a fetch but sitting first really. Then Charlie got to do two seen retrieves "into cover" - which is just lobbing it into very long grass. Charlie has done these "find its" before but not into such long grass with brambles and things. He loved it - all I could see was his tail wagging madly above the grass (sorry, above the "cover"). He found the dummies fine, but one needed a bit of encouragement "find it!" when he came and asked for help from me and didn't get it (not allowed :-[). And finally, Charlie got to do one that was "hunting downwind" - which the trainer said was a bit harder, and although Charlie didn't give up, we had to walk down the path a bit so Charlie got the idea he had to run downwind and then go up, which he did and he found the dummy fine then. It was really, really, interesting and Charlie LOVED it. So we are going again next Tuesday, when apparently we don't get to do any retrieves (today was a special to show us what Charlie could do) but have to work on the sit still stuff and me being a bit firmer about things. AND, AND, AND...the trainer showed me how to check whether Charlie was a the right weight by feeling his ribs and backbone and said Charlie was FINE. He said he was just as he likes to see a labrador, nice and slim, not too fat at all. Yay! Yay! Yay! The diet worked....
Re: This gundog lark... I'm getting the impression you enjoyed yourself 8) Brilliant news that you all had an absolute ball !! Long may it continue ;D
Re: This gundog lark... Oh, I should have said - I've probably got the names of everything wrong...I'm sure the trainer said "seen blind retrieve" though - which seems a bit odd -seen AND blind. I think he said it means Charlie saw him take the dummy to a corner of the field, but not where he then threw it in that corner. Something like that, anyway. I'll have to get a book...
Re: This gundog lark... Julie, that's fab that you had such a great time!!! Sounds like you AND Charlie may be getting The Bug... ;D ;D ;D
Re: This gundog lark... Glad you had so much FUN and really glad you are going back. Your pup seamed to have loved it too.
Re: This gundog lark... And a great time had by all , lovely to sense your enjoyment Julie , well done and remember to be a bit firmer ;D
Re: This gundog lark... [quote author=kateincornwall link=topic=2459.msg24386#msg24386 date=1378388240] ... and remember to be a bit firmer ;D [/quote] Yes, being firm about things DEFINITELY a theme.... ;D
