I started a new training class a few weeks ago, at a local well established dog training club as felt I wanted Cassie to behave better around other dogs. Positive methods are used and it's very friendly and I have definitely learnt some useful things, but it starts and finishes with the dogs having free play, which to start with I thought was great for her. But now I'm not sure if it is or not, whether it makes it harder for her to focus, and if she's more interested in the other dogs than if that didn't happen. I'd be interested in people's thoughts.
Is it compulsory? Just tell them the truth. Miss Sassy is young and you just want to take a few weeks out from the free play to see if it helps her focus. As you think she maybe she's finding it stressful. You might find a few of the others feel the same.
From when Molly was about 8 or 9 months old, I took her to outdoor gundog lessons, for about 6 months. When we arrived the trainer told us to let the three dogs off the lead to run free, and they belted through the woodland and played with each other as well. At the end of the lesson they had another free time as we walked back to the cars. I don't remember it being a problem. The dog club I attend meets in a scout hut, a fairly small space, so we don't let the dogs play indoors, but it is situated in a recreation ground, so I (and many others) often let our dogs off lead in the rec to run / play before and after lessons. Molly seems to understand when it is time to focus on me. Our lead trainer ( who has no qualifications) says she doesn't advise this however. This link is about a study which says that dogs retain learning better if they play afterwards - though this is not neccessarily with other dogs. http://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2016/11/playtime-after-training-improves-dogs.html I think only you really know Cassie and how play with others affects her.
My view is if Quinn started with free play, the class would be a nightmare. It would take some class time away by just regaining her focus on me, as she would be in play mode. I can picture her lunging at the end of the leash as I type... I guess it depends on each dog and age plays into this as well. In a couple of Quinn's classes, we would run into class mates while waiting outside for class to begin, and if they played it would take ages for both to settle into class. I would be totally OK with free play after class ended!
I think you have to make your decision based on your impression of Cassie's behaviour. I don't think there should be a problem with you sitting the plays out. I've been doing gundog training and very occasionally the dogs have had a bit of a run around before the session and I didn't notice it made a difference to Plum's focus compared to the weeks they didn't have a play. But I have to acknowledge that the plays happened by chance, because the trainer didn't encourage it! I found the cowpats more distracting to Plum, I must admit!
I've been to both types of class. I think it depends mostly on YOUR dog. Play is a reward and with other dogs might be a very high value reward. Play with me has value too as it's all I can offer at a trial. For competitive dogs, play with other dogs (unless we already know them) is not allowed at a trial. If we know the other dogs, which we often do, there might be a short play session even at a trial, if there's a safe place for it.
As a trainer I don't like free play at anytime during a training session. Who is monitoring the play to ensure that it is 'good' play? Are all the dogs allowed to play at once or just 2 or 3 at a time? The free play is taking up valuable training time that you have paid for. It's not necessarily difficult to arrange play dates with other attendees but I take the view just because I'm in the same class with other dogs doesn't mean I want my dog playing with them.
We start our class with free play - and find it useful. Small dogs/puppies together and big dogs together, so approximately groups of 3 or 4. If anyone gets a bit OTT (and it's usually Coco I'm afraid), they go back on lead. It works well for our class, the dogs get to burn off some energy at the start, and then settle easier into work mode. It's invaluable to us, as I tend to avoid other dogs when out, due to Coco's boisterous behaviour - but in a more controlled environment he gets good play experience.. and gradually he is getting better out and about. No one is force into play - there's always the option to stay on lead or even step outside. After the free play, dogs are not allowed to interact at all - unless we are doing a recall from play exercise. We do lots of handler/dog play throughout the class.
When I went to training classes with Hattie there was no free play ever. No dogs off lead until it was their turn to train. There was walk by, weaving in and out of owners with their dogs on lead etc. All cotrolled. I'm not sure I would like a free for all, surely some dogs can quickly go over threshold. xx
I agree with Helene. I used to want them to have free running after a class, but glad that it was not granted, I think they do go over threshold.
At the first two puppy classes I went to the puppies were allowed to play after class and both were very carefully managed. No more than three pups, (chosen to match, as far as possible, age, temperament, size) at a time and the class trainer (s) were very alert to signs of distress or too much rambunctiousness in one dog against another. It was never for more than a minute or two and seemed ok to me. It always happened at the end so the training was completed first.
This was the start of a lot of serious problems for me and my first gundog. Same trainer, same woodland possibly. It took me forever to undo the damage and taught me a very valuable lesson. So a free for all before or after training is definitely something I would never do with my dogs ever again.
I think the consensus is before a class, free play is probably not a good idea. Maybe some managed meet and greet after the class. At the gundog training I go to it's very much you and your dog . I was wondering if free play encourages owners to interact with the other dogs? This may not be a good idea if you are working on discouraging Cassie engaging with people you encounter. One thing though Cassie might find it very frustrating if she can see other dogs getting excited and playing whilst she is not allowed. I would pop her back in the car, or give her enough distance that she is able to calmly watch the other dogs. Just my humble thoughts though!
Well I suppose it's how you feel and how Cassie responds as to whether it's ok or not. When Sky was a puppy 10 years ago, we didn't take her to any training classes and apart from some interactions on walks or with friend's and family dogs, she didn't have playtime. Don't think she has suffered in anyway whatsoever by being 'deprived' of this. Now I am free to take Red to anything I want to, a whole new world has opened up. However, I take her to training for the training. I am happy for her to have positive interactions with other friendly dogs but I am not looking for play opportunities.
It sounds as if you had an excellent puppy trainer and well run classes. Socialisation is important in the puppy class and what you describe is well planned and controlled - I only wish all classes were as good.
I don't encourage free playing before or after my group training sessions, but if the participants want to let their dogs run around after the session is over, I think that is up to them... It depends on the group, the age and character of the dogs, and how well they know each other. Sometimes I think it does them good to run around after the session, as it lets them let off a bit of steam, but I really cannot see the benefit before a class starts...
There is no free play either before or after at my club, probably because there are several groups working in their own corners of the grounds/arena. I'm happy with this arrangement. My main goal is to get Xena to ignore other dogs unless I say so (which is starting to feel like an impossibility) so I use club night as my "ignore other dogs" training.
We have no free play at our classes either. They need to learn to ignore other dogs in 'formal' situations. Better that they don't come to expect to play. I find the hardest thing at classes is managing my own feelings of 'failure' when I get it wrong, I'm getting better at that too.
You should never feel a 'failure' - you haven't got it wrong, you're just learning the same as your dog.
I know this rationally, but the feeling isn't rational. It doesn't come from our trainer either, she is excellent and encouraging. It comes from my school days when I was blamed, shamed and hit for not learning. Deep seated fear of failure, which I think a lot of people (especially my age) have. When I became a teacher then headteacher I was very clear this wouldn't happen to our pupils!
