One for all you more experienced trainers than me please! I have 2 lab bitches and their training alone is great. They will heel, stop on whistle, retrieve well, etc etc individually but I cannot get them sorted out with only sending one named dog for a retrieve. I have tried improving their steadiness individually and together particularly by placing them in the imaginary clock and throwing dummies which they have to wait to retrieve. I can take either one, place her on a stay, walk away, throw the dummy skimming directly over their heads without a movement from the dog, and either send for a retrieve with or without a stop whistle built in or recall, heel away then send back for a retrieve. I can put both together and throw the dummy and they will both be steady to it but the second I try to send one away and not the other I guarantee they will both set off for the retrieve. I have tried sitting them up together and holding the collar of one, sending the other for just a couple of feet for a "boring" retrieve whilst hanging on to one then much praise for both and this works fine until I let go of the collar. Even doing this repeatedly over several 10 minute training sessions and they still can't stand watching one retrieve without the other. In gundog training classes it is the same, I can split them up in a line of dogs (getting a reluctant husband to handle one of them) and they will nonchalantly watch all the other dogs retrieving but again as soon as I send one of mine the other will run in. Any tips and suggestions most gratefully received.....
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs What is your command for sending one dog for the retrieve? There is a little video clip of mine in the gundog training section showing me working two of my dogs together. I use their names as a cue to go out for the seen retrieve. That way there is no confusion which dog I want to go out.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Their command to go is their name and nothing else. I've watched your video clip with much envy Heidrun......
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs I wonder if you are actually making it harder for your guys by throwing very short retrieves. It is incredibly hard for a dog to honour another dog's retrieve when it is only yards away from it. I leave those sort of exercises for much later in the dogs' training. Have you done plenty of non-retrieving training with both dogs together, i.e. sitting both dogs up and then walking with just one at heel and leaving the other behind, or walking one dog at heel and circling the sitting dog? Also recalling each dog while the other remains seated? If you can do those exercises I would start the retrieving exercises by leaving one dog in the sit and walking the other away a little distance and then sending it for a placed dummy. It might be easier then having them in line. Very gradually you can then reduce the distance between the two dogs.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Hmmm yes that's a good idea Heidrun I haven't revisited the basic stuff for ages as we did all of that in basic training before adding in the retrieves and they were fine. I've just taken them out in the garden and started practising heel walking one with the other on a wait and they struggled with it although six months ago would have done it with ease. I'll abandon working them together with dummies for a bit and just reinforce the basics - good suggestion thanks!
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Have you first told the one you don't want to go, to sit (and stay)? Then send the other one. Stacia
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs As Heidrun has indicated, the secret to this is preparation through group obedience. Recalling one dog past the other, is a useful exercise. Start with the dog to be recalled sitting closer to you than the dog to remain seated. Then progress to the two dogs sitting together, then the dog to be recalled sitting behind the dog to remain and running right past him. Until you can do this reliably you should not attempt 'honouring'. You are actually at an advantage having multiple dogs as you can practice this kind of thing every day ;D Pippa
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Thanks everyone, great advice, I had done all these training exercises solidly before moving them on to working with me as a pair but had not kept reinforcing the basics after moving the training on (duh....). They seem to love working as a crew of two, and although are steady with strange dogs retrieving can't stand one to get the reward of the retrieve without the other. We've had a couple of 15 minute reminder sessions in the garden this evening with heelwork, both being put on a stay, heeling one away, etc etc and with a little assistance from the ever-reluctant hubby have started to see them remembering their basics very quickly. I'll keep them going on this for a couple of weeks before reintroducing dummy retrieves with both dogs together. They are both keen retrievers which is both a blessing and a curse for this sort of thing. How would you reintroduce dummy retrieves for the pair? If I understand you correctly Heidrun you wouldn't use very short seen retrieves (too much competition) so would you go for me standing with them sitting next to me, fling the dummy a reasonable distance and send one with perhaps a judicial finger on the collar of the one not retrieving? Or would it be better to sit them up facing me, walk away 20m or so and drop the dummy next to me before sending one for it so I can eyeball the other and reinforce the stay? The best thing ever they like to retrieve is a rabbit fur dummy, so presumably don't use that initially but go back to something of lower value (plain canvas dummy or tennis ball perhaps)? I've only had one lab at a time before this pair so apologies if this seems a little dumb, but I'm always up for new training challenges and running two instead of one was my challenge to myself.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs This afternoon I dragged OH away from the golf on telly and asked him to video the spanners and me attempting some training to 'honour' another dog's retrieve. I don't usually train with all four dogs together but thought I would give it a go. The 'honouring' part went ok but I think I need to head my own advise and do some serious obedience training . Ziggy, the Flumber, seems to think that sit or downs don't apply to him, or at least are optional : and I found that I was repeating myself with all of the dogs way too often. Excuse the washing flapping on the line, like I said it was a spur of the moment video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pl6Bo79a5s
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Great stuff. In a couple of weeks I'm sure I will have the same degree of control over my two (if only)......Not sure I'll have the courage to post a video though....
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs You could try something similar to what I did in the vid and position yourself between dogs and retrieve. Just don't make my mistake and turn your back on the sitting dog when throwing the dummy and watching one dog retrieving. It is not so much about the retrieve but more about the remaining dog(s) being steady.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs This morning I did exactly that Heidrun and put both dogs on a sit with me at the point of a V shape. I then threw the dummy a couple of feet behind me and looked at the dog on sit whilst sending the retrieving dog. Worked brilliantly with the younger one who is a steady peg dog type, Drakeshead breeding. The older one has always been a bit like a hot spaniel anyway and didn't manage to stay without a finger in the collar from my reluctant assistant. I'll continue the garden basics and no honouring retrieves where she can fail for a bit and see how we progress.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs That is a delightful little video Heidrun , I love Ziggy, his attitude is a bit like Sams , " Me please " Lovely to see tham all together and, as an aside , I love to see a line full of washing blowing in the wind
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs This fascinates me and I think my two can do this. When I have them both sat in the paddock I can leave them both in a sit/wait and walk to the opposite end of the paddock, I throw the ball on the ground and call one dog and the other will stay. Hattie is not particularly a keen retriever either. This morning whilst walking Hattie I spotted two deer, I got her close in a sit/wait (she was off lead and I was not restraining her) whilst she was watching the deer and she did not budge until they had gone and I released her. Is this someway towards steadiness or am I barking up the wrong tree? I thought that video was lovely Heidrun, I do love that little Murffi Helen x
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Very nice Heidrun! Do you give each dog a treat after every one of its retrieves?
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs When I train in the garden I use a lot of food rewards, but when I am out and about on the moor or in the woods I tend to use other rewards more than food. The chance to hunt on is probably the biggest reward to all of my dogs. Especially Alice, my oldest dog with several seasons working under her belt thinks those little exercises on the lawn are totally beneath her, so I reward her with a little bit of dried liver in exchange for humouring me.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Ah lovely Ziggy He looks like he's just popping up to check you're ok and didn't have a treat that you forgot to give him. He's got some pace when he retrieves though! I think the Clumbers are deceptive cos they're not as manic as the other spanners who are also lovely
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Barbara, most people expect Clumbers to be slow and lumbering and most show clumbers I have seen are exactly that, but Ziggy is working bred and has got enormous pace and will give all my other spanners a run for their money. They are a little bit slower to mature but are very trainable and a joy to have around. I am relatively new to the breed but I am totally smitten.
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs I can well believe it Heidrun! The chap I know with Clumbers reckons his fastest dog would have given plenty of spanners(he has cockers too) or labs a run for their money As you know I definitely have a soft spot for them and I just adore the photo of you and Ziggy having a cuddle. By the way have you thought of putting all your video clips in one place? I think they're very useful and instructive
Re: Training steadiness in two dogs Bit of a progress update. I've been working on basics and can now confidently recall one dog past another to the extent I can put Lochie in a down wait and call Tarka who will hurdle over the top of her in a corridor without a flicker. So back to honouring retrieves and a complete fail. Every single time one will run in on the others retrieves, but again no running in if it is a strange dog sent for the retrieve. Frustration was starting to set in so I got my son to video a training session and all became clear. When I send the dogs on a retrieve I subconsciously twitch my hand (as if setting them up to be sent out). It is a tiny movement but it is consistently there and the dogs are obeying this as a hand signal and both are going. If I stand bolt upright with my hands behind my back and try and send one just using their name they stare at me waiting for my twitchy little hand signal. It's always me and not the dogs who can't get things right.......
