I'm going to go away for a week up to Craigelachie Gundogs in Northumberland at the end of Feb (hopefully). Stay in a cottage on my own with E. dog and spend a week doing some intensive training. Kay looks like the kind of lady I'd do well with - very straightforward and happy to voice her opinions. Before we go, i'd like to have got e. dog to a certain level or else i'm just paying to be taught how to do stuff i know how to do. in other words, i need to find more time in my day to focus on her. work and christmas and children are getting in the way at the moment. so, if no one minds i'm just going to keep a small note of what needs sorting before i go up. [li]increase desire to retrieve - she is definitely not obsessed but stopping going for walks is really confusing and i just don't seem to get it[/li] [li]get heeling much tighter as per our interesting discussion. This is an ongoing piece of work and i know how to do it (at least in theory). [/li] [li]lengthening sit / stay and adding the odd tiny distraction[/li] [li]reinforcing recall[/li] [li]practise more retrieving and memory ones if this helps with objective one.[/li] driving six hours with this dog will be very interesting. going to the toilet on the journey will be the worst bit i reckon. it's either a she-wee or leaving her in the car whilst i go into a service station. neither fills me with enthusiasm. i love the north east. miss it when i don't get back home regularly. my geordie accent needs reinvigorating. Although Chris Rea was from Middlesbrough hearing Driving Home for Christmas makes me want to go back even more than normal even though i have no family left up there. It's "Get my feet on holy ground" that does it 8)
Re: Trip to Northumberland Sounds great - and a training diary that everyone can benefit from is a pretty good basis for a thread, I reckon! Would love to see photos when you are there too
Re: Trip to Northumberland Ohhhh. Ill be really interested to hear how you go. I found their website a few months ago and really really liked what I read nearly asked for vouchers for xmas! . They are not too far from scotland, and quite near where family live now, and ive been thinking about an intensive few days with my two there as well....please keep us posted on your diary too...my main goal before going there is harnessing my boys hunting drive a bit more....
Re: Trip to Northumberland What made you choose that particular trainer? Judging by her website she seems to be more into spaniels than Labradors.
Re: Trip to Northumberland eevee has a tendency to self-hunt. if most labradors focus on playing with other dogs, eevee would say hello and then would prefer to go a hunting / sniffing. i don't know how to increase her interest in retrieving with me. she doesn't go off at distance. stays quite close but just loves a damned good sniff.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Yep brodick too, Ive often thought of him as a hot spaniel when he is in hunt mode...he doesnt look like a lab when he is around wildlife.... this is what I like about them, from their website: 'Its not about belting and booting but love, trust, and commitment'.... thats what I want from a trainer....
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=heidrun link=topic=3679.msg41462#msg41462 date=1387139919] What made you choose that particular trainer? Judging by her website she seems to be more into spaniels than Labradors. [/quote] Because i want to go 'home', like her style on her many you tube videos, including those of her with labs, her main focus is on understanding the dog and helping me to understand her better without force; she's the kind of person that i strongly suspect i will know where i am with her. the rest of the day i'll be able to walk in some beautiful countryside and have a bit of peace. i'll miss all the noise i'm sure but at the moment it sounds idyllic.
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=debsie link=topic=3679.msg41465#msg41465 date=1387140777] Yep brodick too, Ive often thought of him as a hot spaniel when he is in hunt mode...he doesnt look like a lab when he is around wildlife.... this is what I like about them, from their website: 'Its not about belting and booting but love, trust, and commitment'.... thats what I want from a trainer.... [/quote] Debsie, you have the very best two gundog trainers up in Scotland, Edward Martin and David Lisett!
Re: Trip to Northumberland Northumberland is beautiful with some stunning beaches. My parents are from there originally and we still have family up there. Sadly it's quite a long journey.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Really??? Wow, thanks heidrun, right im off to google them! Erm im a complete softy, would they take that into account?! Brodick got wacked on the nose and pushed about a bit ( including memorably into a hedge for not walking at heel!! ) by our last trainer and though he didnt seem to mind I hated it and cullin really didnt cope she had a fear wee when she saw that and he was only really nice to her! ...have decided that approach isnt for me....
Re: Trip to Northumberland That sounds like a perfect 'retreat from the world' for a week, Sarah. Lovely bonding time with your Eevee; I'm sure you'll both love it. Northumberland is wonderful.
Re: Trip to Northumberland It sounds lovely. I'll be very interested to read how you get on and the advice you get about the hunting thing. My two like to hunt and when they get on a scent it's noses down nothing else matters. My old Labrador loved to retrieve so these two are a bit of a shock to me although their desire to retrieve is definitely improving. : It's good to know you and debsie have a similar issue and I'm not the only one with labs that prefer to hunt like a spaniel than retrieve like a lab. Jen
Re: Trip to Northumberland 1. retrieving desire. this is going to pot. I really really need some help in this area. Should I stop her daily walk? If so do i also need to stop her running round the garden with honey dog? they do that a lot and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. i think the retrieivng desire thingy comes from the fact that you reduce it to the only place they have any fun. i could be wrong. She's still delivering to hand but she's not running out as eagerly and just seems a bit "that was so last year" about the whole thing and would much rather self sniff. 2.Heeling. Well that's better ;D We've been using the driveway rather than the garden and so i can walk faster. this rain makes the garden like a sea of mud. she's sitting to hand, whistle and word but i think more that she's stopping to me stopping. this is all good training though and i'm really pleased with her. i'm not desperate for her to be tied to my leg i just want her in backwards-forwards position. if she's a touch wide i'm not too fussed. 3. lengthening sit / stay. She plays this game but adding distraction isn't going brilliantly well. i can walk out of view for a millisecond though and in the house can open and shut the front door. wouldn't be able to if someone came in though! she certainly can't sit through my husband walking in the room. perhaps that's asking a bit much as she adores him. 4. recall is (thank heavens) very good. said driveway is open to the road and once every so often someone will walk by or more importantly a dog will walk by. one did today so she slipped out of sit / stay adn ran off to bark :-[ thankfully recall on whistle worked perfectly as said dog had a pram with him and barking dogs near prams is asking for a very defensive human (understandably). 5. retrieivng. urggle. see above. sarah
Re: Trip to Northumberland Some other questions occur to me..... How often do you retrieve and how many do you do? Is there much variety in your retrieving? Distance, direction, marked, memories etc Are you expecting her to be steady? We had serious problems with our retrieving desire after I melted Riley's brain one day you probably don't have as much of an issue I'll explain what we did though in case any of it is relevant or helps. You'll also see why I asked the questions I did. I severely restricted the amount of retrieving we did and I got something he really, really wanted (rabbit skin balls and dummies, nothing too large or heavy). I allowed him to run in all the time, I wanted to re-establish the urge to chase and make it a LOT of fun. Once he was keen again I started introducing other dummies, this was a difficult phase as he was picky and prone to switch off again if it was too boring or he wasn't keen on the dummy. I relied on rarity value and not too many rules and went very carefully. On his favourite dummies I started to introduce rules and did more difficult retrieves - directional work, long memories, hunting in cover. The more difficult stuff held his interest as it was a challenge but do anything too often and he would start to go off the boil. I'd say 6 months after our hiccup we were in pretty good shape again. I didn't stop our walks as I enjoy them and I often have a buggy with me but I did our training first and if he didn't do what was asked we went home and tried again later. Little and often is the key with Riley and sometimes we still have a week or so off completely, it only seems to improve his enthusiasm. I'm sure there are several ways to approach this though, just thought I'd share our efforts good luck! Looking forward to hearing what works and how you get on
Re: Trip to Northumberland Sorry brain still ticking over.... Other things that add to his enthusiasm are: Other dogs retrieving and waiting his turn - gets bored if I pick stuff up though Using cold game Someone else throwing the dummies ;D
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=heidrun link=topic=3679.msg44821#msg44821 date=1388938920] When you take her for a walk do you allow free running? [/quote] Yes, if by free running you mean run round, sniffing, playing with other dog, sniffiffing some more, running some more, eating sheep poo.
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 date=1388950079] Some other questions occur to me..... How often do you retrieve and how many do you do?[/quote] Not many, five or six retrieves per week. I don't mean sessions, i mean throws. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 date=1388950079] Is there much variety in your retrieving? Distance, direction, marked, memories etc[/quote] yep, variety in distance, direction mostly marked but a couple of memories. Gundog trainer showed me memories, she loves these but when i came back from him i did rather too many so have been extremely economical after that as she started to play keep away. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 date=1388950079] Are you expecting her to be steady?[/quote] No. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 date=1388950079] We had serious problems with our retrieving desire after I melted Riley's brain one day you probably don't have as much of an issue [/quote] I'm not sure she'd give Einstein a run for his money. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 date=1388950079] I'll explain what we did though in case any of it is relevant or helps. You'll also see why I asked the questions I did. I severely restricted the amount of retrieving we did and I got something he really, really wanted (rabbit skin balls and dummies, nothing too large or heavy). I allowed him to run in all the time, I wanted to re-establish the urge to chase and make it a LOT of fun. Once he was keen again I started introducing other dummies, this was a difficult phase as he was picky and prone to switch off again if it was too boring or he wasn't keen on the dummy. I relied on rarity value and not too many rules and went very carefully. On his favourite dummies I started to introduce rules and did more difficult retrieves - directional work, long memories, hunting in cover. The more difficult stuff held his interest as it was a challenge but do anything too often and he would start to go off the boil. I'd say 6 months after our hiccup we were in pretty good shape again. I didn't stop our walks as I enjoy them and I often have a buggy with me but I did our training first and if he didn't do what was asked we went home and tried again later. Little and often is the key with Riley and sometimes we still have a week or so off completely, it only seems to improve his enthusiasm. I'm sure there are several ways to approach this though, just thought I'd share our efforts good luck! Looking forward to hearing what works and how you get on [/quote] Thank you so so much, that was really useful. I think i am definitely a touch boring. (most human beings would agree!) They reckon with gundog training most people push on far too fast when they're new at it. i reckon that's men. i think i'm guilty of doing the easy stuff for too long and boring her into submission. problem is that i don't know how to do the interesting stuff very well. I did get a pheasant skin off a friend but she's so mad for it that she'd never bring it back to me in a million years. she's the same with rabbit skin. ball comes back (sometimes) but the bigger rabbit skin dummy is taken off for a good chomp. she's absolutely mad for that. it's her nose. anything that smells remotely like food and she's too keen. i seem to be struggling with the old middle ground. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44878#msg44878 date=1388950534] Sorry brain still ticking over.... Other things that add to his enthusiasm are: Other dogs retrieving and waiting his turn - gets bored if I pick stuff up though Using cold game Someone else throwing the dummies ;D [/quote] isn't partiucarly interested in what another dog is doing. well didn't seem to be at the gundog trainers. using cold game - she's under the desk here nodding vigoursly but i know the little critter'd eat it. she likes this. pity no one round here can be bothered to help much. I know, poor me....... Thanks Barbara. Massively useful stuff. sarah
Re: Trip to Northumberland Same here, I use occasional bribery with the OH and our lessons to get round this. I also had a 1-2-1 lesson where I got some tips on exercises I could do on my own to address our specific issues (none of which apply here unfortunately). I'm a bit dull, my instructor reckoned he'd be able to get Riley to bring a retrieve back to him during one lesson and I reckon he was right. He didn't as that wouldn't have been terribly helpful but it did make me try harder to be enthusiastic. Even now I have to occasionally run away from Riley if he gets distracted by a smell or other dog. I also found a lot of natural corridors to work in, any path that's sheep fenced really. The hunting stuff would be really close quarters so as Riley emerged from cover it was straight into me. Then I gradually moved away and it didn't really occur to him to stay away(I've not had a big keep away issue though). You can get rabbit skins and just attach a small strip to a dummy or put your dummies in a game bag that's had game in it, that may help you find the middle ground. Or get some scent to rub on your dummies. Another top tip from Heidrun that helped was to play with the dummies and make out it was the best game but not let Riley have it at all! Several times a day for a few days and then we did one retrieve and put the dummy away. The more of the same....basically trying to make it the most precious thing in the world. Just more musings I'm afraid but hopefully some food for thought.
