Re: Trip to Northumberland The problem I've got is that I know that if she was owned by someone else, she'd be a cracking dog. I am fighting the fear that I am ruining her and should send her back to the breeder who is an a panel judge and has raised x number of ftch. He shouldn't have trusted me with her.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Step away from the fear! You aren't ruining her, you're recognising your challenges and doing something to address them. I'm sure there are very few dogs that don't have some hiccups along the way even the very best dogs trained by the very best trainers. Our trainer was celebrating winning a trial with her springer recently but she explained to the class we were in how much planning and training had gone into it and how often she'd been frustrated beyond belief and thinking it wouldn't come together but she took a deep breath and revisited the training plan and worked towards the end goal. On top of that your lovely dog has no clue that she's supposed to be some legendary ftch but I reckon she's probably pretty happy in the meantime with all the attention she gets from you and you just need a plan to get where you want to be
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=hd link=topic=3679.msg44915#msg44915 date=1388960221] The problem I've got is that I know that if she was owned by someone else, she'd be a cracking dog. I am fighting the fear that I am ruining her and should send her back to the breeder who is an a panel judge and has raised x number of ftch. He shouldn't have trusted me with her. [/quote] You won't ruin her, you are trying your best and that's all we can do. We still struggle with Charlie and have felt the same as you at times, but we keep going until we find a way through and find what makes him tick, not always easy as he's a rescue, but we are seeing a tiny light at the end of a very long tunnel I also found that have 3 things to work on helped me focus my training and also taking breaks too. I wouldn't mind betting you are doing way better than you think too. Keep going.
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3679.msg44917#msg44917 date=1388960703] Step away from the fear! You aren't ruining her, you're recognising your challenges and doing something to address them. I'm sure there are very few dogs that don't have some hiccups along the way even the very best dogs trained by the very best trainers. Our trainer was celebrating winning a trial with her springer recently but she explained to the class we were in how much planning and training had gone into it and how often she'd been frustrated beyond belief and thinking it wouldn't come together but she took a deep breath and revisited the training plan and worked towards the end goal. On top of that your lovely dog has no clue that she's supposed to be some legendary ftch but I reckon she's probably pretty happy in the meantime with all the attention she gets from you and you just need a plan to get where you want to be [/quote] You're right. Not sure she'd like a kennel now, she's rather partial to the central heating. He asked me whether I would trial her, I was very honest about the chances of this so he was obviously not fussed. I'm just having a crisis of confidence.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Sarah, your pup is only about 8 months old isn't she? You haven't ruined anything, training is only just starting. Would the pup's breeder be able to give you some help? All A panel judges I have ever met have been very approachable and happy to share their knowledge. What are your training goals? Do you want to work your dog or compete with her?
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=heidrun link=topic=3679.msg44936#msg44936 date=1388965465] Sarah, your pup is only about 8 months old isn't she? You haven't ruined anything, training is only just starting. Would the pup's breeder be able to give you some help? All A panel judges I have ever met have been very approachable and happy to share their knowledge. What are your training goals? Do you want to work your dog or compete with her? [/quote] I have no expectations on her and don't want to put any limitations on her either. The limitations are more my own ability rather than the pup's. However, she's my non-pet first dog and as such i do not expect to be able to trial her - need to learn to walk before running. I find myself very frustrating. Always have, always will. It's a positive really as it makes me try far harder but i get terribly frustrated with myself. Her and Karen's poppy have a lot of ancestors in common and if i can get her to be half as good as poppy i would be very pleased indeed.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Sarah, I've just counted back and I've realized we only started going to training classes when Poppy was about 8 months old. Before that time we didn't really do any proper training, other than the basics of walking to heel, sit and stay, etc. We did quite a lot of retrieving games, but didn't insist on any steadiness. This wasn't deliberate; we just didn't really know what we were doing! In retrospect, this may have strengthened Poppy's already very robust prey drive, while making a rod for our own backs in respect of heel work... It's not easy to know what's best, when you get your first working line dog... And yes I agree at times it can be very frustrating. But Eevee is really very young still, just at the start of her training. I think the mean thing at this point is that she, and you, enjoy your time and training together.
Re: Trip to Northumberland Upping the fun is going well. Yay! She is enjoying the extra time we're having together as well as the stuff were doing. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Sarah
Re: Trip to Northumberland I think I've just got to remember that it's easy to bore them into indifference. Learnt something!
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=hd link=topic=3679.msg45726#msg45726 date=1389303681] I think I've just got to remember that it's easy to bore them into indifference. Learnt something! [/quote] That's true; especially smart dogs from working lines can get bored if you keep at the same thing for too long. Keep changing around what you are doing - alternate a couple of memory retrieves with a few normal retrieves, and a few where she has to sit while YOU go and get the dummy… I'm sure it's not that easy if no one else in the family is terribly interested, but perhaps you could BRIBE them to help you on occasions? Also, doing retrieves in different locations makes things more interesting / exciting (for the dog, not necessarily for you!). When the weather gets better, doing a few retrieves out of shallow water might really pique her interest. As long as you appear really fascinated by the dummy ( ) the chances are that she will think it is really, really exciting as well… I'm also thinking of something that Nick told me. He trains the 'hunt' whistle by chucking a few dog biscuits on the ground, then letting the dog search for them while deploying the 'hunt' signal. Later he moves on to hiding several tennis balls in cover, then sending the dog in again using the hunt signal to search for them. Since Eevee loves to use her nose so much, perhaps it might be worth interspersing a bit of hunting training in with the retrieving? On our shoot day, I was astonished that Pops seemed to understand instinctively how to quarter in front of us. Yes, we have trained the hunt signal (a bit). But clearly these dogs have this ability bred into them.
Re: Trip to Northumberland [quote author=hd link=topic=3679.msg45726#msg45726 date=1389303681] I think I've just got to remember that it's easy to bore them into indifference. Learnt something! [/quote] It is also very easy to train 'the sting' out of a gun dog. With my spaniels I am walking a constant tight rope of keeping them hunting and retrieving fast and furiously whilst keeping them under control. ;D
Re: Trip to Northumberland just catching up on this and nothing of any use to add but I'm interested in this nonetheless. I have one dog who is passionate about retrieving (Cuillin), and one who will only engage as passionately as my other dog when its in REALLY exciting circumstances on land, or in water he will do it all day (Brodick). I'm kicking myself regularly about this, as I didn't know about extinguishing the desire to retrieve before I found this site, and I think this is what has happened with B, he did FAR too much when he was little, because I was doing work with the older dog with him there. Should have left him at home...hindsight and all that! he is like Eevee, loves to use his nose, he has started quartering with me now, but only in very controlled situations, in too intensely smelly locations (particularly pheasanty smells) he will still be off in his own nose if I let him...enjoying reading about Eevee dog's journey
Re: Trip to Northumberland Thank you for enjoying Eevee dog's journey. I worry about letting her down but I'm learning so much. As a dog, she's becoming more liveable with. She has more self restraint and fewer unsociable moments. I am starting to actually like her. 8 months is normally around the time that it all goes pear shaped so she is working on her own timeframe. It makes you wonder what she'll be like at 2. I am trying really hard to get my husband involved and to persuade him to see her good points. Showed him how to do a memory retrieve yesterday and they both enjoyed that. You could see him thinking how amazing it was that she was remembering distance and location even in the near dark. Watching her hunt by nose rather than by eye and seeing her tail wag for Britain was very cool.
Re: Trip to Northumberland This was ages ago! Still going up there at the end of the month. E. dog is doing really well at the moment and hopefully it will go well. Kay (craigelachie) seems extremely nice so hopefully our senses of humour will work together. i'm really looking forward to it. wish she travelled better but she's alright. it's a hell of a long way. perhaps this will count as exposure therapy (which it think is where you get lots of what you don't like and you learn to cope). she is doing so well though. her leg still clicks sometimes but it seems like its diminishing. they're both in season at the moment but thankfully she'll be finished by the time we go up - only just ;D that was lucky!
Re: Trip to Northumberland Gosh HD! That would have been a bit of a disappointment if you had to cancel :-\
Re: Trip to Northumberland I'm sure you'll have a fantastic time. Looking forward to lots of reports, and photos.
Re: Trip to Northumberland She's getting far far less naughty and much more keen to listen and learn. She definitely does want to learn. From my vague grasp of these words you're supposed to use to describe dogs, she's much less soft than Honey. Honey wilts under too much pressure and if resat in place too often would get all mopey and sad and incapable of listening much. E. dog is much more happy to be told off in a firmer way and learns from being told off. She seems to like very clear information and therefore a displeased voice tone is an obvious "don't do that". Honey hates being told off and gets very sad and tries to leg it to nicer people. Funny thing is that whilst this sounds like E. dog is the easier to train, i kind of 'get' honey's soppy attitude and as long as you tell her constantly how wonderful she is and feed her a bonbon she's yours forever. she learns quicker than e. dog because e. dog's head appears to be full of distracting stuff like the bird in the bush, the noise above, the smells and of course, the major one, the treats in the pocket. just as with my children, you get a bit of one and a bit of another and smoosh them together you'd get uber child. smoosh these two together and you'd get a happy medium which definitely would be my choice of dog temperament.
