I have a 9+ week old black English Lab puppy that I am training to be my service dog. I have used service dogs for 13+ years and have trained each one of them myself using clicker training and positive only methods. I found a really great breeder with a ton of service dogs in her lines and great health testing but unfortunately the first pup I got from her ended up with a super super rare genetic disease and I had to return her after 2 months. That pup was SO easy. Mellow, soft mouth, easy to train... I finally got my replacement pup and the two couldn't be more different. Different parents, of course, because she won't ever breed the two that turned out a rare mutated gene. I will admit that these two are my first English Lab service dog prospects and/or pets. I have always been a greyhound person but have owned many breeds including Livestock Guard Dogs to protect my sheep, Australian Kelpie to herd, a BC, GSDs, Pug and many others... My first two service dogs were Italian Greyhounds. This puppy is a REAL handful. Her first main issue is non-stop biting. I mean really really bad. I am disabled so I am home with her ALLLLLL the time. Any time she is awake she is basically attacking anything remotely close to her. My hands, face, clothes, hair, the blanket covering my bed, my pillow, carpet, leather couch, headboard of my bed, my other retiring service dog. Basically lunging at things to attack at all times she is awake. Thank goodness for when she finally falls asleep. Peace. I have normally kept my service dog prospects tethered to me while in the house so they are with me and since she is only 9 weeks old she is not potty trained yet. She is crate trained for night time and doing well with that. Other than not wanting to come out of it and the only way to get her out is to reach in which results in biting of anything that gets near her. Hands, sleeves... as I slowly try and gently lure her out. So on the bed or the couch or the floor, where ever we are and she is biting EVERYTHING that gets near her I am constantly shoving every possible toy and chew thing into her mouth. I have every possible texture and toy available for her at all times. Right now I have 13 different types of toys and a bully stick on the bed. I have tried the yelping method and that seems to excite her and she shark attacked my face a few times because of that. It also seems to scare my retiring service dog when I yelp. I just cant seem to find a way to deal with her biting and start to create bite inhibition. Her second problem is that she seems to throw tantrums. That is the best way I can explain it. If I take her out to pee she will come back inside and throw and tantrum of biting, lunging around, attacking me nonstop barking, whining. Basically like an overstimulated child. The only thing I can really do to try and avoid getting bitten is hold her by the leash attached to her harness and try and prevent her from attacking anything other than her toys. She had a two hour tantrum this morning that really left me frustrated. It 'seems' to be from activity. Whether it is playing with her brother outside (Italian Greyhound) or just going out side to pee and playing with some toys or even going for little walks in safe areas. The more active she is the more wound up she gets. Even carrying her on a long walk with a friend seemed to activate her and make her throw the tantrums. She really refuses all toys during these tantrums and would rather attack (playfully or frustratedly) me or her little brother during these times. I am sure some of this stuff is normal for labs and I am just not used to the lab personality but I just wish there was 'something' I could do to help with bite inhibition and also the tantrums. I feel like I need to DO something....? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, Chanda & Kestrel
Hi Chanda, welcome to you and Kestrel. It sounds pretty much like normal lab puppy behaviour to me. Have you had a look around the website and forum. A thread like this one - https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/puppy-problems-will-things-ever-improve.1680/ may make you feel less alone with this. I'm not the greatest with training, but I wonder if your puppy is getting enough rest during the day. He might need some short time-outs? The crate is the best thing for this, get him used to settling in his crate for regular rests to try and avoid "the wall of death" behaviour. I hope a couple other people will pop over to help. The main site has loads of puppy advice including how to try manage biting. http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-puppies/ jac
Welcome to you from Mags, Tatze and Mollie from Manchester UK Tatze is my pet dog, a black Lab and she's four years old. Tatze means 'paw' in German. Mollie is my fourth Guide Dog puppy, a black Lab who is six months old. Yes, I also think the behaviour is very normal. But your descriptions of 'tantrums' certainly sound like an overtired puppy to me. I would pop her in her crate with a Kong once she's played, had a bit of training etc and been fed. I've never found the yelping to work either. It's not such a good idea to tether them to you, in my view - this will frustrate them enormously. If you want to restrict the space, use baby gates and puppy pen panels. You may like to chat to @Emily_BabbelHund who has lots of experience of service dog training For
Ok, thanks guys. Yes I did read the sticky above and it did make me feel a little better. She isn't really doing 'that' much to make her so 'over tired' or 'over stimulated' but it still seems to be happening. We mostly do a minute or two of clicker training for her 3 meals a day. Then a little outside play and potty. Sometimes I will sit with her on my front porch and let her watch things go by and a couple times I have carried her on a walk with my neighbor and her dog. Hoping one day she will be old enough to actually walk on the ground... This morning she simply went out to pee and such and came in and started the tantrum. I did put her in her crate and she fell right asleep. Not sure what the difference between her crate and my bed is, but it worked. I am in a wheelchair so tethering her to me is what has worked best for all 4 puppies I have raised. They aren't really 'tied to me' or anything, just wearing a harness with a leash attached for me to catch if they try and take a flying leap and then we chill on whatever piece of furniture I happen to be on. So mostly the bed or sometimes the couch. I watch a lot of TV because I am in horrible 24/7 pain. Rather than put her on the floor I often just put her on my lap and roll to a different room because she isn't potty trained yet so I really don't want any possibility of accidents. Then she is loose outside to potty and play with toys or her brother. I don't really have the ability to do baby gates and such with my houses shape and also with my mobility issues. I have been running a nonprofit and helping people train their own service dogs for over 13 years so I have a lot of experience in this area. What I don't have is 'lab specific' experience. None of my other dogs have been this bitey or have thrown tantrums like this. Those are the new parts... And the last lab from the same breeder was completely opposite. I was very surprised at their differences. I lucked out with the first one. Other than the horrible genetic disease... I just got home from the barn where my horse lives and have been trying to train her to stay quiet in an x-pen while I mix up my horses grain and such. She isn't too happy about this but I click and treat when she is quiet... She ran around the barn loose a little bit and had some fun. I thought she would be over tired or stimulated but we just got home and we are on the bed and she fussed for a minute or two and now is asleep on my husbands pillow...
I have had a few labs and what you describe does sound very normal as the others have said. I had a pup that was like your first lab well behaved a when young. He did not have a genetic problem but he did have a serious auto immune disease which I think had made him a more bidable pup. He didn't have the energy or physical coordination of my later pups.
Thanks. Today was a pretty good day. A little resting. Some fun at the barn and some more resting. Then a little training for dinner and a tiny bit of outside time for potty but it was raining so we didn't stay out long. Then the tantrum! Refused to play with toys or the bully stick I kept trying to shove in her mouth instead of my hands, arms, clothes and so on... I only let it go on for a few minutes before I popped her in her crate. She fell right to sleep and is resting. Her crate is next to my bed so we are still together. I wish I could understand where these tantrums are coming from. Why they are happening. What can I do to stop them... I just don't fully grasp the concept of what exactly is going on with them. She definitely wasn't overstimulated or over exercised this time. Just an after dinner tantrum. I am feeling reassured with you guys telling me that this is sounding normal to you. I am just so unused to it! I want to understand it better. And I think this is a UK site. Am I correct on this? I just wanted you guys to know that I am in California in case there were some terms or language that gets lost in translation. I was looking at the 'how much does your puppy weigh' thread and was dying because it was in kg and not in pounds. Us silly Americans and our measurements....
Sparky would nip at my hands and try my face even when he is trying to tell me something like he needs to go potty or he's tired. He would be peacefully chewing on something, next thing I know he suddenly turns on me full attack. If I do the time out ignore thing at that age, next thing I know when I turn around he's peeing on the floor. He would still nip at my hands sometimes when he's trying to tell me something even though he is trained to use a bell for potty.
So far our potty training has been fairly amazing. She had one accidental pee in the house. My bad. Otherwise I take her out regularly and she also makes it clear when she needs to go. She also gets regular water intervals so she never seems to ask for that. If she is throwing a tantrum for a 'reason' I am not sure what it is.... I wish I knew!!!!
Hi there and welcome here. It sounds like you have a normal Lab pup. I would caution you against thinking that your pup is throwing a tantrum. She is still very young and getting used to her new life with you. That in itself is tiring. I think it's telling that when you put her in her crate she fell asleep immediately. She is tired and overstimulated and doesn't have the maturity to control herself, just like a toddler. Definitely give her a "time out" (short) in her crate when she gets like this and see if she calms down or falls asleep. Right now everything she does is stimulating to her - eating, drinking, sniffing - there's a big world out there and she is exploring all of it for the first time. So even if it seems she isn't "doing" much it all will be tiring to her. She needs lots of sleep, like babies do. So keep on with your training and celebrate the small successes. You will get there!
Thanks, that makes sense. I guess I am just so confused by the difference between the two pups. First one was so mellow and unflappable. Didn't care about a thing. This one I guess is just a more standard lab...
Yes, she sounds like a standard lab! She's probably finding her new world very exciting, even when she's not being fed or trained, so regular periods of time out in her crate should help. It will take time to get through the bitey puppy stage, but it will be well worth it.
Hello Chanda. I read your post before anyone had replied and thought, that all sounds normal. I wouldn't reply though as I am definitely no expert and have been having my own issues - mainly the thread 'Puppy Blues'. My yellow Lab (called Red) is just 17 weeks. We have a black Lab (called Sky) who is 10 years. When we got Sky who has always been a very gentle dog, she was 5 months old and I don't remember there being any biting so it was a massive shock to get Red at 8 weeks who did nothing but bite the first few weeks and we still have the scars!!! She still shows she is a croco-pup but this has reduced dramatically. It is very unpleasant and scary when it is going on and I was scared for my grandchildren - my granddaughters are still very wary of her and Sky has chosen to keep out of her way. Certainly having the baby gate barrier has made everything manageable but I appreciate you can't do that. Red is only just now beginning to play with toys - she showed no interest at all. Empty plastic bottles and cardboard were about the only things that kept her busy for a little while. I think I underestimated the stress for a small puppy leaving her mum and siblings and think a lot of her 'behaviour' was stress related and possibly overstimulation. The crate is and has been a life saver for rest time. As everyone has said to me, things will improve - it doesn't seem like they are going to but small steps.....
Hi Chanda and welcome! I'm really intrigued by your experiences as I'm currently looking for a Lab puppy to train as my service dog as well. I came to the forum about nine months ago as I was doing breed research to determine what my next dog would be and Labradors kept coming to the top of the possibility list. Frankly I was rather astounded (and somewhat horrified ) to hear the tales of the crazy crocopups! My background is 20 years of Rottweilers, which for me at least, were incredibly calm as puppies and very different from what I hear described here. The big stand out difference was the biting - this is a challenge that I never ever dealt with with my Rottie boys. As others above have pointed out, your Lab baby sounds very typical and there are lots and lots of "my puppy is a crazy crocopup and I don't know what to do" threads here on the forum. I've just kind of come to the conclusion that I will have to deal with that phase when I get my puppy. However, for the forum members who stick around past the initial panic phase, you will also see them come back and say, "Now that my puppy is older, things are so much better." This is what I'm hanging my hopes on personally - that they crazy pup does indeed become the sweet gentle dog that Labs are known for the world over. Keep the hope alive! The hardest thing now may simply throwing out some of your extensive experience out the window and reframing your training and mindset to fit a Lab. I say this because I feel this will also be my big challenge. I too am used to the flock guardian type of dog and I'm sure Italian Greyhounds (wonderful little guys!) are also very different in learning/behaviour style from Labs. I've found @Boogie 's guide dog threads very educational and as well as @snowbunny 's threads about Luna and her blog. Of course my difference is that I've not yet had any hands-on Lab puppy experience, though I am getting a bit of a taste of bitey-dog with my mew foster dog and what I'm learning here on the forum is proving very useful. Please do stick around here and continue to talk about your journey with Kestrel - you'll get good support and we will learn a lot from you!
Mollie is my fifth Guide Dog pup and all except Bruce (Golden Retriever) have been Labs or Lab Xs and crazy crocapups! My own pet Lab, Tatze was too. Mollie is now six months old and her loopyness is, generally, confined to zoomies now (tail tucked under and haring round and round) but she does have her nippy moments still. With Mollie it's when she's getting hungry so I've introduced the snuffle mat to keep her busy before meals Mmm
Hi there I wonder if she doesn't have enough to do, rather than being over tired and over stimulated? Both of my Labs have been very lively as small puppies, and although of course they weren't going on walks at that age, they were doing quite a lot of activities in terms of socialisation and game based training. In particular, I changed their environments a lot so we'd have sessions around playing with water, and playing on different surfaces and so on. All gentle and play but still a fair bit to do in a day. My second Lab was massively bitey to the extent I worried that it was stopping me interacting with her the way I should. Training things like a hand touch and releasing a toy helped - a hand touch gave her something else to do and taught her to keep her mouth closed as she put her nose near my hand, and training her to release something in her mouth at least gave me a way to get her to stop playing full on tug with killing head shakes with my clothes/shoe/hand/hair etc.
I had this thought too. Boredom, frustration, over tired, over stimulated are all possible causes - but none of these can be completely eliminated. They sometimes just do it! Mine were all at their worst from 13 to 20 weeks. In fact Mollie was a very gentle pup until she was 13 weeks ish. Then, at six months old they slowly turn in to normal dogs - hurrah! One consolation, my supervisor says the craziest pups are the most intelligent
We do a lot of fun things between the quiet. We train at least 3 times a day. She has already learned her name, look (look me in the eyes), touch, sit, down, leave it, gimme kiss, walking next to me, walking next to my wheelchair, in your house(crate) and she is also starting a nice retrieve that includes gentle bodywork. We are still working on recall. I really want to focus on that. So she brings me the toy and I rub her all over gently. Then I grab the toy and do some gentle tugging while handling her paws, ears and tail. Then toss the ball and she comes running back for more. She plays with my Italian Greyhound every time we go outside which is about every two hours (every two hours at night as well but no playing). When inside I have her in an x-pen while I try and fix some food. About once a day is all I can mange at this point. She plays in there. The rest of the time we hang on the bed with a zillion types of toys. She will play with toys and chew on her bulky stick and even nap (which is SO lovely). We usually go to the barn once a week. We have puppy class once a week. We have a long drive and a Drs appointment she goes with me to once a week. And then I have been trying to take her a couple places a week to ride in my lap and see new places. But those evening tantrums still happen. Doesn't matter whether we have had an active day or whether we take a whole day off and stay home. The crate has been working well for the last couple days. When I realize that the tantrum isn't going to stop I just put her in there and all is well. I 'think' we have a good balance of doing fun things without overdoing it. I am going WAY slower with her than #1. At this age #1 was already heeling by my chair and going to the grocery store and Home Depot and didn't care about forklifts and wood rattling by on carts. She went everywhere and saw everything and nothing bothered her. Kestrel seems much more sensitive so I am taking things slower and doing a much more gradual exposure to the outside world. I am pretty sure she needs this. If I am correct it sounds like this is more normal and #1 was really more abnormal. I really appreciate all the advice. Being new to labs I did a ton of research for months. But that still didn't prepare me for this particular puppy. I live her though. She has so many good qualities. Brave, snuggly, smart and so on. Maybe I need more puppy games to play. I have a lot of adult dog type games I am aware of but not necessarily puppy games... I will check out the others training their service dogs you linked to. Thank you!!!
