Two tone fur

Discussion in 'Labrador breeding & genetics' started by Sophie-Bum, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Sophie-Bum

    Sophie-Bum Registered Users

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    We recently got a black pup. The litter had yellow, chocolate and black. While collecting her we saw mum and dad doggies outside in the sun. Dad was chocolate but mum was a gorgeous two tone black /chocolate. Her undercoat was was the chocolate so when the sun caught she changed colour. I've never seen this in labs and noticed our pup's coat does it too, it's really quite stunning.

    I just wondered if anyone else has seen this in black labs?

    She's not kc registered nor did we ask for full pedigree history, she is the result of someone's (working) pets and we are more than happy with that :)
     
  2. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    I've never seen that, no. My chocolate, and every other chocolate I've seen, has a sort of grey/slightly brown/dirty mouse coloured undercoat, not actually a chocolate undercoat.

    Got any pics?
     
  3. Sophie-Bum

    Sophie-Bum Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    I'll try Julie. You could see mums all the time but only ours pups if the sun catches it, which usually proves tricky I'm Yorkshire! Don't know if Sofie pup will turn more like mum's too but she really was beautiful :)
     
  4. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Well, it certainly sounds lovely! :)
     
  5. lemmys mum

    lemmys mum Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Sounds lush as we say in wales. Mums choccy Dylan has gone all sorts of shades over the years and he now matches me in having red through orange and blonde. :)
     
  6. Kirriegirl

    Kirriegirl Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Are you saying mum is black with choccie highlights? If so, yes, i have one of those :)
    The amount of brown is more if she is moulting at the time. It is most noticeable on her ears and muzzle, but on a sunny day you often see it all down her back.
     
  7. Naya

    Naya Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    My friends lab is chocolate, but looks black until you catch him in the sun. It is a beautiful colour :)
     
  8. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Willow is black, but her head looks brown when the sun shines on it. My experienced labby friend said he had a bitch who was like that as a puppy, but when she grew up, she was jet black, so I don't know if it's just a puppy phase. Her mum (yellow) definitely has hidden chocolate genes so it may be from that?
     
  9. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    I'm sure there are beautiful variations in colour and shades that occur - we had a thread with close up pics of fur which was amazing - I'm not sure the variations people are describing are a "mix" of black and chocolate though.

    Someone with more knowledge about coat colour might be able to confirm or comment, but I think if a dog is black carrying chocolate, it won't be the chocolate showing in the coat. The black gene is completely dominant and "switches off" the chocolate gene. Think so, anyway...

    More on this here:

    http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-colour/
     
  10. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    That was my understanding too, Julie. Personally, in Willow's case, I think it's just fluffy puppy fur.
     
  11. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Re: Two tone fur

    [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8518.msg120438#msg120438 date=1414567159]
    I think if a dog is black carrying chocolate, it won't be the chocolate showing in the coat. The black gene is completely dominant and "switches off" the chocolate gene. Think so, anyway...

    More on this here:

    http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-colour/
    [/quote]

    Yep, that's it. Black is dominant over chocolate and one dose of black will prevent any expression of chocolate. If you're seeing brown in a black dog it's got nothing to do with the chocolate gene.

    However there are other separate genes that black is not completely dominant over and which can occasionally pop up, like genes causing the expression of a brindle pattern.
     
  12. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Re: Two tone fur

    My Tatze's Mum was a very dark Chocolate and looked black in some lights - gorgeous!

    :)
     
  13. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Two tone fur

    I've definitely seen black dogs that have a chocolate cast to them, the black seems to be quite soft and their coats are usually softer too whereas Riley has the tougher topcoat with a really hard black colour and the odd white hair.
     
  14. Kirriegirl

    Kirriegirl Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    I have always assumed it is more a physical effect of the hair's reflective qualities rather than genetics. Mira does not seen to have grown out of it, but it is mostly noticeable when moulting now. She has a thin soft coat.
     
  15. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Old black coat can look brown as it's faded by exposure to the sun and the elements. My old black dog always had some brownish areas (mainly on the thighs) by the time he shed his coat as the old coat was faded. Not the action of the chocolate gene though.
     
  16. Kirriegirl

    Kirriegirl Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Interesting Rachael, I didn't know that about the coat fading.
    Mira's undercoat definitely has more of a grey/brownish tinge than her top coat, which I assume is due to difference in reflective properties; it's dull compared to he glossy outer layer.
    I remember lab colour genetics coming up in a dim and distant biology course ;D
     
  17. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Re: Two tone fur

    There are quite a few sites out there on dog coat colour genetics if you want a refresher ;) This one is worth a look as it uses a Labrador example: http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/breeding.htm
     
  18. Sophie-Bum

    Sophie-Bum Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Very interesting reads here everyone. Thanks for the input and links. Who knew fur could be so scientific ;)
     
  19. Kirriegirl

    Kirriegirl Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    [quote author=Oberon link=topic=8518.msg120574#msg120574 date=1414615372]
    There are quite a few sites out there on dog coat colour genetics if you want a refresher ;) This one is worth a look as it uses a Labrador example: http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/breeding.htm
    [/quote]
    Thanks Rachel :)
     
  20. LAB LOVER

    LAB LOVER Registered Users

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    Re: Two tone fur

    Hello:

    I had never seen, nor heard of a two tone pure lab until we purchased our puppy. He is of American and English Labrador Ancestry; some of the pups in his litter had a brownish/fox red tint in the sunlight. Louie does not have it; he is pitch black, very shiny coat, like velvet. Two of the pups from said litter were yellow, one had almost a burnt amber color and are stunning (they were female; we had pick of litter and wanted a male or I would have taken one in an instant!). Anyways... sounds like you have a beautiful dog! :)
     

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