Hi, Henry is 14 weeks and just fantastic! I am loving every moment of my first Labrador experience. Just wondering if I've made a rod for my own back teaching him to give me his paw for the last couple of weeks.which he is doing so well! I followed advice to use a closed handful of treats and only release one when he moved his paw...until eventually he now readily puts his paw in my hand. BUT, now whenever I try to follow training advice to encourage him to lie down,ie.A handful of treats down on the floor.... He immediately tries to give me his paw, sitting perfectly upright! How can I separate the 2?
This isn't an unusual problem It's important to use a totally different hand movement for these two exercises. You are using a closed fist for the 'give paw' exercise - that's good. For the drop/down exercise try using the other hand held flat to the ground, palm down (you can kind of bend your thumb in to hold a treat for the initial luring phase). With your hand like this lower it to the ground and leave it there (don't move it!) until he does something that approximates lying down - that might just be moving his head lower initially. Mark/click and reward that. Just don't mark/click and reward moving his feet off the ground. You can also mark and reward any time he happens to lie down anywhere. As soon as he starts to lie down mark and reward. He'll get the idea that lying down is something that is worthwhile trying. To be honest I do not teach the 'give paw' or 'shake hands' exercise as it can result in a dog that just slaps you with their paw all the time. We got our dog Obi at 9 months and he was so, so, so good at 'shaking hands' It had been so heavily rewarded that he did it all the time. Since we got him we have not once asked him to shake hands (in about 3 years). Gradually he stopped slapping at us. He still knows how to do it though when other people ask! So, while you are teaching the down, stop asking for the shake hands/give paw and ban everyone else from doing it too. Once your pup learns the down then you can go back to doing the give paw at times, as long as your hand signal is kept totally different from the hand signal for down Hope that helps a bit.
Hello and welcome to the forum, I can't add to the great advice above. I couldn't agree more about not teaching "give paw" - I so wish I hadn't done it. Whenever I'm shaping anything, Charlie tries putting his paw on me. It hasn't worn off after 2 years....
Hi and welcome to the forum. Rachael has given you some excellent advice. I was lucky enough to come across this forum and be guided against teaching "give paw" before I'd done it - it does seem like something that can cause a problem! Every now and then, someone will ask one of my two for a paw and they'll just look blankly back. They think my dogs are really dumb I had a hard time teaching both of mine the very first stages of the down. They never naturally went into the position, so I couldn't capture it randomly, and luring took ages for them to understand. It was a very early thing I clicker-trained, though, so it's entirely possible I was being a bit rubbish A bit of advice I read, which didn't actually work for me, but might for you, is to use your leg , or a chair, or something similar, and lure them underneath. That way, they have to duck to get under the obstruction. Like I say, it didn't work for me, but it might be worth a go. In the end, it was just time and patience with my two. It's not unusual for dogs that have learnt one behaviour to repeat it in other situations. They have learnt that gets them a treat, so they do it again and again. They have to "learn to learn" and over time, he'll get better at understanding that you're after something new and to try to work it out. Good luck and stay in touch Videos are also welcome if you want some advice!
Thanks so much for your quick responses. Im wishing I hadn't done the 'give paw' trick too! It doesn't really have a use in every day life. I will definitely try your suggestions and let you know how it goes! Thanks
I saw a video where there was a tunnel against a wall and a treat was thrown into the tunnel. The dog had to lie down to get in to the treat. You can make the tunnel out of anything piece of card over two chairs for example. I think it was a kikopup video. Have a look for her stuff online, she has some great ways of teaching things
Well, I'm considering teaching it now, actually, as I'm working on desensitisation to nail clipping. I'm wondering if it's more positive for the dog to give you its foot, rather than you picking it up. I'm humming and hawing on it, though... I don't want to cause future problems.
We taught Riley "paw" but after all the basics like sit, recall, down and it hasn't caused a problem. I have to say I really don't use down much at all though. "Go to bed" is an absolute must but what they do when they get there is up to them. Also "settle down" usually results in lying down but again up to them......
ah tha paw. We taught Belle to give her paw and now, yes, you get scratched/slapped as she goes through her repertoire to get a treat. Unfortunately, Coco has copied her without being taught by either of us. Coco was taught "down" by moving a treat between finger & thumb from nose to ground. He already knew this when we got him. This week I have added and swapped to a verbal command. I did this with the aid of a clicker.
That's how we taught DOWN as well but we moved to a hand signal before starting the verbal. Our trainer said not to use a verbal until we were so sure the hand signal would be obeyed that we would show our neighbour how smart our pup was and bet $50 on it. She said dogs understand body language, hence hand signals, sooner than verbal commnads. Plus, many dogs go deaf in old age so the hand signal can be used again then, or any time you want to use it. Yeah, I was the only one in our pet manners class who refused to teach shake a paw. I've seen that go wrong so many times. It's a hard one because other people will reinforce it when your dog offers it to them.
We used a treat between finger and thumb and held on the floor as his head went down for the treat we pushed the treat (on the floor) towards his chest and his bum would slide backwards as soon as his belly touched the floor we would click and treat and then build up from there, at the moment we still need to cue of bending towards the floor and point at floor but don't need the food anymore to lure him. At puppy class for those that struggled that way, the teacher sat with her knees raised and with a tasty treat she lured the puppy under the knees and again as soon as belly is on the floor click and treat.
I had SUCH trouble trying to teach Lola 'down'. I didn't have the paw problem at that point (that came later for us ), but she never really lay down during the day so I couldn't capture it, and luring mostly didn't work because treats and training were just SO exciting that she was never going to lie down. I can't remember exactly what worked in the end, but I did have some luck with sitting on the floor and tucking a treat just under my leg, so that she had to get in to the down position to scrabble for it. Good luck, loads of really good advice here
Murphy knows paw, and 'other paw' but we had no trouble at all teaching the down....I sat on the floor with my legs bent up - put the treat on the other side of my leg to him (whilst he was sitting) - then put it on the floor. so to get it he would have to lay down and put his head almost under my leg, just did this a few times - then introduced the verbal command. I laterly (once he was doing a very reliable down with verbal command only) introduced a hand signal, which is my closed fist raised up high - the reasoning behind this is so he can go down at a distance just on sight...he is only 6 months but so far its working really well. I would do the signal when he was half way to laying down. I also really like insight learning, so actually letting the 'offer' you a move - you'll often find if you just wait long enough they will try something different, which you can then jackpot - its called insight learning and actually has a much quicker impact on their brain and them learning the 'trick'.
I taught paw and am glad that i did. Harley is very gentle with paw and only gives it when prompted. We also do other paw. Due to her reluctance at the vets to be checked over since her operation, I have been doing desensitivation which includes treat for looking in her ear, give me paw so I can examine her paw, in between her pads etc, stand for checking her tummy, back leg means lift it for me to check paw. We now use this sequence at the vets and it has really helped know paw, high five etc as she relaxes quicker.
Your title uses LIE DOWN. Are you using both words? I have always been told to try to use single syllable one word commands. So just DOWN. I'm not sure how important this really is as several agility commands are two syllable words, like OVER and TABLE.
Quick question on the down.. i use verbal and hand signals, sit hand's up, down hands down pointing to floor works a treat excuse the pun. With this i can get him to stay whether sitting or down. If he's anywhere in the room he'll sit when requested but he'll only go down if he's directly in front of me. Any ideas to get him to go down at a distance?
Just - very gradually - back away from him. So do repetitions of down with him in front of you, reward lots, then take a tiny step back - repeat, and again and again. Just don't move on too fast.
WE used a stick for distance and some place work. Sit dog behind stick. AGain how many times you decide. Walk a bit away, ask for sit. Many if not most dogs will sit behind the stick as you gradually increase distance. Fade stick. I used the stick for Drop on Recall in much the same way, DOWN behind the stick, increase your distance, then increase dog's distance, COME, say DOWN (or whatever your word is, I know some use a different word for this) just before dog reaches the stick, you are standing right behind the stick at first on DOR. Worked for us.
Yes maybe i'm doing it too quickly, usually i get him to sit then down, he does this no bother but as soon as i take a step back he'll sit no bother but when i say down he moves closer to me to do it. I'll keep at it and as you say little steps.. thanks
Ah, yes, you really want to train down separately from sit if you can. And train "sit up" from down (Charlie is rubbish at that unless he is right in front of me).
