Understanding labrador colour genetics

Have I understood this right?

A yellow labrador either carries black genes, or else it is a 'Dudley', with no black genes. Poppy has a black mark on her tongue, and darker rings around her eyes, so although I haven't had any genetic tests done I assume she carries the black gene. I think this makes her type eeBB??

Black labs can either carry the yellow gene, in which case they are known as EeBB, or else they don't in which case they are EEBB.

The dog I am interested in as a stud dog is noted on the DRC website as being 'type EE' - does this mean that a litter from him and Poppy could ONLY produce black puppies??

Thank you for clarification help...

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Sorry - I meant to say excluding (for my own purposes) chocolate colouring. No offence - I love chocolates!!!

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Hey Karen,

as far as i know a yellow lab carries solely yellow genes since the yellow is always recessive. So a lab that carries yellow and black genes is always black.
In my opinion a littler from Poppy and a male that has only black genes will be entirely black, while a litter from a black bitch and a black stud that both carry black/yellow has a small chance of being entirely yellow.


There is a chance i totally missunderstood the whole color gene thing though ;D ;D

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Hi Christoph, yes that's more or less how I understand it too... Complicated, isn't it?!!

I love the stud dog in question - he is gentle, handsome and calm; he handles very well and is beautifully built, just a perfect dog. And he is local, I know him and his owner quite well - and he and Poppy like each other!!!

BUT - if I am right this means they would only have black puppies... which are lovely of course and temperament and conformation trump colour every time... but I just love Poppy's colour... :-\

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

This chart may help explain it.

A yellow can have both choccy and black hidden genes.

I think Poppy could be either BBee or Bbee, looking at the chart.

I don't know what just EE refers to, because the chart shows:
BBEE which is all black genes (puppies will all be black)
BbEE, has two choccy genes. If Poppy is BBee, puppies will be all black, if she is Bbee, 1/4 will be choccies
bbEE, which I assume he's not because that would make him a choccy.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Either way, there won't be any yellows if he's EE, sorry.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

I don't think Pops has got any chocolate ancestors; they were all yellow or black.

Yes Fiona, I think you are right. All black puppies. Sigh.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

[quote author=Karen link=topic=9833.msg142634#msg142634 date=1423490183]
I don't think Pops has got any chocolate ancestors; they were all yellow or black.

Yes Fiona, I think you are right. All black puppies. Sigh.
[/quote]

Willow says "What's wrong with that?!" ;D

[img width=600]http://i.imgur.com/fTiFTIy.jpg[/img]

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

WILLOW!!! You beautiful girl. Nothing wrong with black puppies at all!!!!!

It's just... I do love the red-gold colouring... And it is quite unusual here, most working strain labradors you see in Germany are black.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Hehe, yes, Poppy is a beautiful girl.

So is that a game changer with the dog? Will you continue looking for another match that will give you a mixture or go ahead with him?

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Oh, this is all very forward-looking Fiona. I won't be going ahead with anything until next year. This year is all about continuing with Poppy's training, and doing all the necessary health tests etc, getting Poppy recognized as a breeding bitch and getting a kennel name registered. I should start a thread about it really.

I don't know really. I just like Barney (the dog in question) so much. And I don't really want to have to drive to Hamburg or wherever, in order to mate Pops with some dog just because of his colour...

I may also have a bit of a discussion with OH, who really thinks we should stick with one colour, because of the hair issue!! I know you do black and yellow, and I am sure you will find out exactly what I mean when they both start their spring moult...

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

;D ;D

Shadow's bad enough - he's moulting terribly! Willow has barely lost a hair yet... it's just a shame the white hairs show up so much more than the black ones :-\

I'm hoping - maybe naively - that it's a temporary thing and he stops soon!

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

[quote author=snowbunny link=topic=9833.msg142646#msg142646 date=1423495458]
;D ;D


I'm hoping - maybe naively - that it's a temporary thing and he stops soon!
[/quote]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ;D Yes, maybe. ;D

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Back to the colour thing, this thread had some good explanations:

http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=6754.msg96993#msg96993

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Oh thanks Kath, that's really clear and helpful

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

[quote author=snowbunny link=topic=9833.msg142632#msg142632 date=1423490117]
Either way, there won't be any yellows if he's EE, sorry.
[/quote]

Yep, no chance of yellows.



[quote author=Christoph W link=topic=9833.msg142628#msg142628 date=1423489412]
as far as i know a yellow lab carries solely yellow genes since the yellow is always recessive. So a lab that carries yellow and black genes is always black.
[/quote]

This isn't exactly how it works. There are two genes at play, both of which have different versions, or alleles.

There is a gene that is coded either Black (B) or Chocolate (b). Chocolate (b) is recessive, which is why it's in lower case (dominant genes are written in capitals).

Then there is a gene that is coded either Not Yellow (E) or Yellow (e). Yellow is recessive, meaning it needs two doses to work.

Labradors all have some version of the Black/Chocolate AND some version of the Not Yellow/Yellow.

A yellow Lab has two doses of Yellow (ee). It has to, or it would not be yellow. But will also have:
Two doses of Black (BB), which is the ideal
Or
One dose of Black and one of Chocolate (Bb)
Or
Two doses of Chocolate and no Black (bb) which will give the dog brown/pink skin (like a Chocolate lab) instead of black skin.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Ah Rachael, I was hoping you would come on! I knew you'd explain it to me in so I'd understand it really clearly. Thanks

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

Possibilities for choccies then? ;D

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

That is kind, Karen Pippa did a better job: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-colour/

In an ideal world you don't really want to be mixing Yellow and Chocolate, as you might end up with Yellow dogs with brown/pink skin pigmentation. Not idea from a breed standard perspective, even though they are still 100% genuine Labrador.

 

Re: Understanding labrador colour genetics

To be sure, there would have to be more info on the sire though?