Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs There are two issues. Conformation is one and the most important, in my view (not just in a Labs but all breeds.....excessive wrinkles in Shar Peis, non-existent muzzles in Pugs, deformed rear ends in German Shepherds, and take-your-pick with Bulldogs). Fat is a big issue too, but a separate one. Fat is most certainly the least of the things separating show and working lines. I think that if show and working lines became separate breeds we could kiss the whole kit and caboodle goodbye. I like the breed Standard and I think it describes an attractive and effective dog and I think if anyone wants to breed a thing called a Labrador they must have reference to the Standard and that by definition includes the purpose of the breed.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs I think it would be sad for the Labrador breed to be officially divided although it is happening, or has even already happened, in practice, I think - an official split would as Rachael says be very significant and an unfortunate change. I hope it doesn't happen, but I think I come across more people with deep disgust for the "other side" who would be happy to split, than those interested in a single Labrador breed hoping for constructive work to improve the working ability in show lines and improve conformation in working lines. I think this is sad and for my part will take my show line Labrador to gundog training, and try to understand and appreciate that world for as long as I'm welcome (thankfully, I have been made welcome and encouraged by a number of good, decent people - so there is still hope, I think). And do my best to put my money where my mouth is in terms of buying dogs that have decent conformation and can be trained to work (within my training abilities, anyway). I'm not at all sure that it's right to blame obesity in Labradors on show judges - they should do their bit and be held to account for that, although so should owners of show Labradors who should persistently enter them into the ring at a healthy weight (my ambition is to do just that - we'll see...). Obesity in dogs spans just about all breeds, and certainly goes across both pet show and pet working Labrador lines. I think there are a great deal more factors at play than owners catching a sight of a show Champion that could stand to be 5kgs lighter on the telly from time to time.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs Agree completely with the sentiments re: weight, why, oh why are the show labs so heavy? They would all look fantastic if they weren't carrying fat, their fit and muscular form would look wonderful trotting around the show ring. Conformation I struggle with. Now don't get me wrong, I like working labradors, and love to watch them work. I have seen a fair number of them as most of the people I know have them, rather than show line (they all shoot, or are from the agricultural fraternity) Going back to conformation...well some of these working labs look very different..to a point when recently saying hi to a gorgeous pair of perfectly trained ,and very elegant black labs I asked what breed are they? Thinking they were more pointer than labrador. I was very embarrassed when told quite coolly they were working labs....unlike yours obviously show line.... : I didn't mind..after all with a black lab sporting a "in training" harness, and a bouncy young chocolate lab....and me in a bright pink and blue walking jacket... ;D
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs One of my friends posted a picture of their very red girl and someone asked if she was a Viszla - oops!
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs What do people think of this dog? Too heavy and "showy" and unable to do a day's work?
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs I don't think he is too heavy, or showy. He is beautiful! Just my opinion though, not that I know much about the subject. This is Casper...he is a perfect weight, interestingly he does look on the big side, especially in some photos I have taken. In the flesh however, you can easily feel his ribs, and he is very fit and muscular. casper 10 by kate_beanwood, on Flickr
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9459.msg136573#msg136573 date=1421084569] What do people think of this dog? Too heavy and "showy" and unable to do a day's work? [/quote] So difficult to tell just in a picture, but to me, this dog looks in better proportion, and front end looks muscley rather than fat. You are going to say I am completely wrong now........
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9459.msg136573#msg136573 date=1421084569] What do people think of this dog? Too heavy and "showy" and unable to do a day's work? U [/quote] Now, now Julie, no setting traps ;D ;D He is lovely though, and I do think he's a little taller (compared to length) than one might see more recently. Also, the weight is clearly muscle!
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=Merla link=topic=9459.msg136598#msg136598 date=1421088609] Now, now Julie, no setting traps ;D ;D [/quote] Aw. You've spoiled it. ;D ;D ;D If I'd waited long enough someone would have said he was a fat piggy of a show dog. ;D ;D ;D The picture is ManyMills Heron.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=9459.msg136539#msg136539 date=1421075908] Agree completely with the sentiments re: weight, why, oh why are the show labs so heavy? They would all look fantastic if they weren't carrying fat, their fit and muscular form would look wonderful trotting around the show ring.[/quote] See, I actually think a lot of them would not look great, even at the correct weight It's not just about fat with show dogs - it's conformation!! Legs too short, heads too wide, short, coarse and heavy, cheeks too fleshy, heads too domed, eyelids too droopy.... It's not only fat. Whoever the black dog is, I think he looks great.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs Not all about fat, at all. Although a dog with poor conformation looks worse overweight. Just watching "fat pets - pet slimmer of the year" on catch up. A 6kg cat that's just been featured (should be 3kg) gets a bigger breakfast than Charlie does! ;D ;D ;D Charlie says this is proof he is starved. This is not because Romeo could be a bit thiner....
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=Oberon link=topic=9459.msg136611#msg136611 date=1421091350] See, I actually think a lot of them would not look great, even at the correct weight It's not just about fat with show dogs - it's conformation!! Legs too short, heads too wide, short, coarse and heavy, cheeks too fleshy, heads too domed, eyelids too droopy.... It's not only fat. [/quote] I so much agree.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs I have been training where all but one of the dogs were working Labs. The show Lab was heavier and shorter but the biggest difference was he wasn't that interesting in retrieving. I think that is the difference, the desire and the lack of desire to work, not all show dogs I hasten to add.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs I know a lot of Labradors too, through our dog club, and they are mostly show lines. They really want to work!! They are attentive to their owners, smart and mentally quick and want to learn and be given something to do. Many of them are quite high in energy (to the point where they're a big challenge for their owners).
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs Desire to work is an interesting thing though......if people had seen Riley at various stages of his three years they may have formed completely opposite views of his drive. On the one hand we have been demoted a class at the Hampshire Gundog Society's training as he wouldn't even pick up a tennis ball 3 feet away. (for those who think in this way it turns out I'd blown his brain through being so far over threshold he just melted!) It took many, many months to overcome this and he has returned to this behaviour a couple of times during the journey from there to here. Yet last week he punched up a steep bank through cover for a blind as if in utter certainty that a whole, hot roast chicken was at the top with his name on it! ;D
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs Well, all I'm saying is that show lines are not by definition unwilling to work The Labrador Standard describes a dog that is attentive to people and that can do and wants to do a job. That is most definitely a big feature of the temperament of show line dogs, in my experience.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs In my experience, show line labs are usually just as keen to work. They may not all have the same stamina and determination as working line labs, but they are very keen!
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs [quote author=Stacia link=topic=9459.msg136740#msg136740 date=1421161172] I'm wrong then ;D [/quote] Yes Not really ;D my comment was just to illustrate how it can be impacted by having a muppet for an owner like me ;D ;D ;D and that it's not always a fixed thing but can be positively and negatively impacted by environment and training.
Re: Update on the slimdoggy blog about overweight show labs People mean different things, I think, by "desire to work" and by "drive to retrieve". On the whole, I think some (but not all) working line dogs are more "serious" than Charlie is - quite a few seem more sensitive and have more worries compared to Charlie. This is particularly so in the advanced class I think. The upside is they don't embarrass their owners by wanting to play at inconvenient moments. ;D ;D ;D In the beginner's class though, and particularly on the week long courses, I think Charlie is able to train for longer, retain focus for longer, and is more willing to return to work from breaks than the other dogs (all working line dogs). So I do think this is a lot about training. Because Charlie wants to play, does that mean he doesn't want to work? I don't think so, I think it's a question of focus. Drive to retrieve - in both classes, Charlie is as keen as any other dog, and keener than most. I don't know about stamina of show line dogs. Charlie is a fit, moderately built dog, and certainly keeps up (endurance, not speed) with the working line dogs in every situation I've put him in. But that's not been a long day working and I can imagine that he'd struggle over many hours and over very long distances (I do train with a lot of HPRs though!). I think some working line dogs would be capable of doing a much harder day than he would do - but I'm not sure the average working line pet would be hugely better off though.
