As most of you know, I do most of my training one-on-one with my dogs. Sometimes, time constraints prohibit this, though, and so I end up just doing training walks rather than what I would call structured training. On very rare occasions, my husband comes on training sessions with me, and that enables me to take both dogs; he'll hold one in a settle while I work with the dogs and (when it's something easy!), I'll let him do the handling whilst I hold the other dog. This works well, when it happens, and the dogs learn to take turns. I've been wondering about the possibility of doing this more often by using a tether for the dog that's not working, so I can take both dogs training even when J isn't around. There's something I find a bit shuddersome about the thought of having my dog tied up, but I'm trying to work out if, trained positively and over time, there's anything inherently bad about it. Here's what I would imagine the set-up would be. - In a quiet area where the dog could always see me and I could see it. - Laying/sitting on a towel or mat for comfort. - Somewhere that I had plenty of time to collect the dog if I saw anyone/thing else approaching. - Lead attached to a harness and with enough slack to allow the dog to move from sit to down to stand comfortably, but not enough to allow them to run and jerk. Trained over time so they'd start with J next to them, so it's no different to when he's with them now, and gradually increasing the distance he stands away, with very short sessions (a few seconds) to begin with. Thoughts?
What you need is a train and treat. You tie your dog to a fence (on a harness), put them in a down, plonk a train and treat next to them and constantly reward as you are off playing with the other dog. I've done this with Charlie when I worked with my friend and we want to be 'helpers' for each other. I tied Charlie to a rugby scrum machine (we trained at the rugby pitch). He now thinks rugby scrum machines are the bee's knees. Great. That will come back to haunt me at some point when we meet a rugby team in training.
Ah yes, the T&T rears its head again! I'm going to have to buy one, aren't I? I had to Google "rugby scrum machine". I would never have known that was a thing. So, there's nothing inherently wrong with tying your dog up, then? It just feels a bit punishy, even though I can see how it could be trained positively. I think I just have images of dogs chained up in yards, straining at their chokers...
As I can imagine where you live and train you won't always be near a fence, you can buy those metal curly tethers that drive into the ground and attach your training lead too, enabling you to move your dog as near as you need maybe that could work?
I was considering one of those, too, Helen, but I think the ground might be too hard for it. I sometimes struggle to get my target poles even an inch into the ground. The ground is generally rock with a thin covering of soil. Where I do most of my training at the moment is on the ski pistes, but these are bashed every night by the piste machines, which makes the base really solid, not the light fluffy snow you might imagine - that just sits on top. If we get the house in Spain, you're absolutely right, though, and the ground would be perfect for one of those tethers. I would hope, over time, that I wouldn't need one at all and that I'd simply be able to put the dog in a settle and they'd stay there. That won't be overnight though
Nope, nothing wrong with it. Charlie used to get tied to things all the time at SWMBO's - me with him, dishing out the treats (he was tied to things so he wouldn't pull me over). Enter the train and treat and you can move away. It's not very different from tying the lead to the chair/table and then having to go to the bar. A good pub dog needs to be able to be tied to something and not get in a state about it. You can do that with a train and treat too. Yup. I should think one would be worth its weight with two dogs....
At our agility class, it is a regular, and necessary, part of the session to tie our dogs at the side of the arena while we (the handlers) walk the course without them. Pongo is in his harness and his 6 foot lead is tied to a (very, very, very sturdy) fence post. We will pass over the first occasion I did this, where he managed to bust out of his entire heavy-duty harness and come merrily galloping down the arena to me - he thought that was a great game . One new harness later, I spent a bit more time just introducing him to the concept of "wait" while wearing harness and attached to fencepost.... and he is now perfectly happy to sit or stand there watching me across the arena. I confess I NEVER imagined he'd be happy with this - after the episode of the bust harness I was resigned to never being able to leave him tied anywhere - but in fact he took to it absolutely fine and very quickly. He is actually just going along with the "wait" cue, and the restraint is only when he forgets that he is meant to be waiting (quite a common occurrence) - it seems to just remind him that he is still at the "wait" and he settles again. I don't think Pongo sees this as a punishment of any sort. He always gets BIG treats when I come back to him, for being such a good, calm, quiet, sensible puppy.... . So for him it has just become another sort of game to play (even if rather a dull one).
Ditto Rosie. We also, in our first agility classes, often went in to help by being spotters for another dog on a raised station and tied our dogs to the fence. BUT, all the dogs were under control, no chance of loose dogs coming up to bother ours. I don't remember any dog being stressed by being tied up. RAther, most seemed very interested in observing. And, they were never tied up alone for long.
I have one of these, but in most places, it would just be impractical. I have to walk to everywhere I do any training, the closest being a 10 minute walk in each direction. I couldn't imagine doing that with two dogs, all their training paraphernalia and a soft crate! Thanks for all the replies. It's eased my fears to have sensible people saying it's not animal abuse I'll get a T&T when I'm back in the UK, but until then, I'll try doing some groundwork.
Definitely tethering during training is nothing like a dog being tied up in a yard all day with no room to move. Personally I think it could be a really useful training tool. The added advantage of the treat & train would make it easier too but add more for you to carry though but worth it, imo. When you think about the tethering, you'll actually be training both dogs at once; one to be calm and wait patiently whilst the other works and visa versa, the other to work whilst the other dog watches or is getting treats. The tether is your training companion, that doesn't answer back or interfere
@snowbunny as you have a really good settle on a mat Fiona would it not be possible to start having one settle on a mat while you work the other. Obviously to start with you would need to do work that didn't mean you had to move far from the settled dog and keep your eye out for people coming but it would be working towards having one dog stay while you worked the other. This is how I work with my dogs unless we are doing something new. You could use a treat and train if you think necessary to help keep the dog on the mat but this way you don't need to worry about where to tether. If your going to slowly train being tethered and how far you move away then why bother with the tether. The other plus of not using a tether is if you are at distance and you see someone you can call the dog to you rather than have to return.
I could do that, Jen, but I think I'd be able to progress a lot faster with a tether in the short term. My end goal would definitely be the same, though - have one dog settled with absolute steadiness, untethered, whilst the other one works. I think that using a tether in the short term means I'd be able to fade it really quite quickly with the correct reinforcement, certainly in an otherwise low-distraction environment. I'll devise a training plan for it as soon as I can
The down side that I could see happening, thinking about my pup here, is it might be more difficult to get the working dog to ignore the treat and train and focus on work. Mine would focus on the work but probably run to the machine to get a treat, bypassing me on the way
Haha, well, I think the dog running for the treat would work out very, very quickly that the dog sat by the T&T gets to it first, every time Shadow is too interested in working to be interested by anything like that. Willow might give it a go a couple of times, though!
