I'm curious to see whether anybody else is in this situation or whether it's just me ... Sometimes when I ask Harvey for a Down he makes a half-hearted effort, a sort of crouch, and looks up at me to see if he will get away with it (I suspect he does get away with it with people who are less strict with him!). I look at him and say 'Properly!' and then we get a proper down. Sometimes he'll also pretend that he hasn't heard a command when we both know damn well that he did - as evidenced by the fact that a 'What did I say?' then generates the appropriate action : I'm also curious to see whether anybody thinks I should avoid these comments and simply wait him out (I don't want to get in to a situation where it always takes two commands to achieve the objective but it is fairly infrequent).
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands Hi UB, Charlie sometimes would do a crouch and hope he could get away with it, NO he couldn't :, I did used to repeat my second 'down' command firmly along with a hand signal : I now only have to use hand signals and also at a distance to get a full 'down'. When you command Harvey 'down' firmly and use a hand signal and eventually you won't need a verbal command and then he will be in no doubt Just how I do it though might be totally incorrect : x
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands I find this one REALLY difficult. I have never pushed for the instant bum (or tum) on ground approach. Lilly is quite slow to respond to these. I give her the benefit of the doubt and think its sore hips, but she might just be taking advantage of me. Hey Ho. If it weren't for the hips I would be after the instant commands with some clicker shaping.
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands [quote author=UncleBob link=topic=5637.msg71445#msg71445 date=1398624814] I look at him and say 'Properly!' and then we get a proper down. Sometimes he'll also pretend that he hasn't heard a command when we both know damn well that he did - as evidenced by the fact that a 'What did I say?' then generates the appropriate action : [/quote] I don't believe dogs deliberately disobey, or weigh up the pros and cons of obeying to decide what to do. So to me, you don't have a trained response to the commands you are giving (which may be because not everyone in the family is consistent ) but you might be in danger of training a command is "the command follow by something else" .
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands I agree with Helen that adding a visual signal helps to make clear what you want. And also with Julie that too often we ( me included!) repeat our commands too often, teaching them to ignore the first one. It's tricky, the only other option is to wait until the dog obeys...which often we are too impatient to do. Clicker training is a big help, it is a way to mark the exact behaviour that elicits the reward ie bum firmly on the ground, not a half way crouch. Review of all these commands on a regular basis so that the command becomes a habitual response to the signal no matter the circumstances is the only way I know to get the response we want when we give the command.
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands I like this clicker exercise: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/2129 Proofing for latency. It involves singing.
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands I would use the approach outlined in the article that Julie linked to. Don't start adding extra verbal cues As Julie basically said, Harvey may have learned that the down cue is "down"..........[pause]......"properly". And/or he is not 100% sure what "down" on its own means, and/or it's not not rewarding enough to do it and/or he just does not enjoy that behaviour (and the sterner you get the less he will enjoy it). He is not looking at you to see if he can get away with not dropping. He is looking at you because he's not sure he's doing the right thing, or he is waiting for the "properly". So, using the article Julie has found, retrain the behaviour. You can use a different cue if you want ("drop") but don't introduce it too fast! Wait to introduce your verbal cue when you are getting a good response to your hand cue. Use great treats. Make sure you are happy and relaxed. Ensure that you are using a marker (click or word) to pinpoint that moment when Harvey's elbows hit the floor. Although you can eventually drop your verbal cue (or even not teach one at all) I wouldn't personally do that. It is good to be able to cue a behaviour using multiple modes - use both at once to be totally clear when the are distractions around. Also, one day your dog will be old. He may go blind. He may become deaf. Being able to clearly cue behaviours using multiple senses is a big help when your dog is old and their senses aren't so sharp any more.
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands Our trainer suggests jackpot rewards for quick responses. Her jackpot rewards usually involve playing, not food. It certainly works with her dogs, she has a GS pup at the moment and it is speedy at all commands. But I find it hard - I think Tatze is spoiled with so many games etc that jackpots have become 'normal'!!
Re: Verbal reinforcements to commands [quote author=Boogie link=topic=5637.msg71536#msg71536 date=1398671589] But I find it hard - I think Tatze is spoiled with so many games etc that jackpots have become 'normal'!! [/quote] Variety in rewards or even if they get one at all is really important. Pippa wrote about the gambling effect in one of her articles
