Morning all, David came back from his walk with Charlie this morning less than happy, he was walking across the park to return home when Sid the Boxer (Sid and Charlie always react with each other) was a little in the distance, David put Charlie in a 'sit' and looking at him with hot dog all was good, Greg could clearly see that David was training Charlie but he walked straight at them with a grin on his face Charlie and Sid went nuts, nothing David did worked and the training fell apart Greg could have easily changed direction and all would have been fine but no he wanted to cause a problem which the whole family are known for, not a nice family at all. What on earth do you do with owners that are frankly stupid. As he is so uncooperative David is going to have to just avoid them as we can't see any other way forward which is what we wanted Thanks xx
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr I have this problem so often. Sadly my area is full of stupid dog owners who couldn't care less about others. They can clearly see I'm making an effort to avoid them or distracting my dog so they can pass and what do they do? Let their dog run riot around the park making no effort to call it away from reactive dogs or let the dog go nose to nose with yours sparking off a reaction. And they are the type of people who will be the first to complain if their dog gets bitten by mine because theirs wasn't under control. Grrrrr!!! I have found the easiest solution is to avoid them, as I find there are so many unhelpful owners where I live. If it was just the one person next time you see him it might be worth just asking him nicely not to allow his dog near yours as you are trying to do some training. Unless he's a nasty peice of work. Then just avoid if possible. I purposely turn my back and walk the opposite direct if I see someone approaching me making no attempts to control their dog.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr I just don't know what makes some people tick. I always try to minimise the impact of my dog on other people, surely it is basic good manners. The people that mess up and deride your training efforts will be the first to moan if your dog causes a problem. Perhaps they cannot be bothered to train a dog themselves. Let's be honest, even at the best of times it is darned, hard, repetitive work. Stick with it and ignore the ********s For the record, my husband thinks I'm going about Molly's training all wrong. I don't shout enough, or punish enough. Funny thing is, he seems quite proud of and impressed by what I have achieved. Silly chap doesn't use what I've put in place. It is much easier to tell her to "Sit" and "wait" while I load the dishwasher than keep dragging her away to the other side of the kitchen.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Some people just ARE unpleasant but it's always upsetting (I have found) when you get snuck up by them.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr How infuriating. In future David could just walk away if he sees them coming. I don't know why some people are so determined to be difficult...
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Rude !!! David could BAT them. I don't mean literally although that might help. If Sid is on a lead and David has enough distance he can keep walking towards them getting Charlie to look at sid then refocus on him. This will help Charlie learn to stay calm when he sees Sid but without having to get near. When David thinks its right he then turns away walking in a different direction so avoiding any reactive contact. If he hasn't got time to do BAT as above then letting Charlie see Sid then walking off in another direction is still BAT and will help. Just a strategy that will help incase complete avoidance isn't an option.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr It sounds really thoughtless, very annoying. [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=5839.msg75102#msg75102 date=1399620485] And they are the type of people who will be the first to complain if their dog gets bitten by mine because theirs wasn't under control. [/quote] I noticed this comment, and wondered about it. I would complain, very, very, much if my dog was bitten under any circumstances. Dogs will be dogs, and people do lose control of them from time to time, and we all have our mistakes. I don't think a dog should bite another dog, even if that dog is out of control. :-\. Am I an outlier in thinking that?
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr I've been thinking about what you've said Julie and I agree upto a point. However it depends on the circumstances. Don't get me wrong if a dog bit mine and it has in the past I would not be happy whatever the circumstances but as you said dogs will be dogs. The way my dogs react even though it's fuelled my fear not aggression I wouldn't blame another dog reacting back. It's standing up for itself and some breeds are more likely to than others. It's not the dogs fault its the breed. For example if alsations backed down and hid or ran away when faced with something they would be no use as police dogs. I would however blame the owner. I will always try my best not to allow my dogs to get into a situation where that could happen but if the other dog is off lead and the owner has no control I might not be able to stop it attacking my dogs. That would be the owners fault for putting its dog in that position. It could've happened the other week when a rottweiller came up our drive to us. The rottie shouldn't have been there, the woman's recall didn't work. If that dog had attacked us it would have been behaving like a dog admittedly a stereotype of the breed but it's owner would have been in the wrong. Owners need to know and understand the breed of dog they have and train accordingly and be aware of what it's instincts are. Unfortunately there are owners who don't.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr I'm not saying this behaviour is acceptable either but whilst working with my rescue centres, in which a lot of the dogs have socialisation issues, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse from people who don't like the fact the dog I've been handling has barked and lunged for theirs. The one incident that sticks in my mind is when I was out walking a young staffi. He was a total sweetheart but would bark and lunge at dogs on lead (he had no early socialising with dogs as his previous owner threw him against a wall and he spent 12 weeks on cage rest with a broken leg). It was mostly excitement couple with anxiety. Not aggression. I was trying to go through a gate to go onto a footpath and on the other side were some members of public with their own dogs running around off lead and they came rushing up to us. So naturally my dog starts barking and lunging. I asked them politely if they could please call their dogs away so I could go through the gate as my dog was scared of theirs and I got the most horrific looks imaginable coupled with comments like 'dogs like that should be destroyed' etc etc.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Owning reactive dogs I agree with you Lauren. Life would be much easier if other dog owners had control of their dogs and were more conscientious towards others. Like the woman with the beagles who let them come over to us on lead barking despite me explaining I was trying to train my dogs not to react !!! The problem is people not dogs.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr [quote author=Jen link=topic=5839.msg75173#msg75173 date=1399643990] The problem is people not dogs. [/quote] Amen sister
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Too true, it is people not the dogs. That's why I keep strict eye on Meg now she's deaf. She's so friendly, she'll just run off to greet people and their dogs. Before she went deaf, she was always a good girl, came back as soon as I called her. I'm very conscious of other people with their dogs. Try to distance myself with Meg unless its people we know.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Well, in the spirit of debate... (By that I mean I'm disagreeing, but very politely, and without saying people here are not the most careful owners). I know it's not the dogs's fault, but I don't think it's ok that a dog could be free to bite in response to such an everyday occurrence as another dog running up to it. Of course, I accept that dogs will, from time to time get into scraps, and very extreme situations can cause any dog to bite. But it's so normal for dogs to run over to other dogs - it just happens all the time - that I guess I think if a dog might bite in response to such an everyday event, there is an argument it should be muzzled. And if it might bite if a child or stranger ran up, absolutely I think it should be muzzled.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr It's our responsibility to try, to the best of our ability, to avoid putting our dogs in situations where they feel that biting has become the only option. I do agree that it's also our responsibility to other dogs and people to try to prevent them getting bitten. Isn't that how we want everyone else to think in relation to us and our dogs - that they have a responsibility to consider our safety and our dogs safety and comfort? If a dog bites someone it might be a totally normal response in the circumstances. But the consequences can be very serious all round. I know that we get faced with kids running up and uncontrolled dogs off lead and all sorts of things. But the fact that those things are predictable means that we at least need a plan for how to deal with it if we know our dogs won't cope. At the very least it's just not fair on our dogs otherwise.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr [quote author=Oberon link=topic=5839.msg75236#msg75236 date=1399654446] I know that we get faced with kids running up and uncontrolled dogs off lead and all sorts of things. But the fact that those things are predictable means that we at least need a plan for how to deal with it if we know our dogs won't cope. At the very least it's just not fair on our dogs otherwise. [/quote] Since I've had Dexter I've got to know a lot of dog owners and been able to observe how they conduct themselves with their dogs.What I find happens with a lot of people ( especially if we get to have a small impromptu illegal hoolie ;D) is that they just switch off and get chatting .....i think that's a contributor to a lot of problems.....they just aren't watching their dogs so they aren't concentrating when situations that they need to manage for their dogs arise,even with friendly ,well behaved dogs! I love a good chat and meeting folks especially potential playmates for Dexter but my eyes never leave Dexter when he's off lead and I'm forever breaking off mid sentence to watch what he's up to!
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr I think that's exactly right. I see this often in the off-lead area at our dog club. People stand around and chat and don't see the escalating excitement and snappiness and when they finally do they can't recall their dogs and then it's out of hand. I'm like you and never take my eyes off Obi. He gets recalled at the first inkling of a brewing problem. The thought of not watching your dog all the time it's off lead gives me the heebie jeebies.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr [quote author=Jen link=topic=5839.msg75121#msg75121 date=1399624893] Rude !!! David could BAT them. I don't mean literally although that might help. If Sid is on a lead and David has enough distance he can keep walking towards them getting Charlie to look at sid then refocus on him. This will help Charlie learn to stay calm when he sees Sid but without having to get near. When David thinks its right he then turns away walking in a different direction so avoiding any reactive contact. If he hasn't got time to do BAT as above then letting Charlie see Sid then walking off in another direction is still BAT and will help. Just a strategy that will help incase complete avoidance isn't an option. [/quote] Thanks very much Jen, we will do that. x
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Should have mentioned when Charlie looks at Sid then back at David he gets a tasty treat. (Sorry for nearly forgetting that important bit charlie ) It's basically the same as you've been doing with woody but moving away before there is a chance of any negative reaction. Even if when they first appear all David does is stop, Charlie sees Sid, David gets Charlie's attention then treat and walk away.
Re: Very Unhelpful Owner - gggrrrrr Thanks Jen, David will try but it's very tough where Sid is concerned and it might take a TBone steak ;D x
