A very interesting discussion . And, strangely reflects a conversation I was having my human friends today. We were discussing the film "Suffragette" and the attitudes of the times. I think we are all products of the times we live in. There are opinions and actions from the past that are totally abhorrent to me. I would like to think that I would have questioned them, but don't delude myself that I would have. Harsh times lead to harsh people. If you have a life of toil and deprivation I don't think you have the ability to empathise or feel sympathy. To me, today, positive training makes total sense. In the past, when people used much harsher putative methods it was because that is how they lived their lives. Like everybody else I used to marvel at the Dolphins, never giving a thought to the conditions they lived in. I wasn't evil, just unthinking and ignorant. We are so privileged today, we can see animals as they should be seen, in the wild but in then comfort of our own homes. I hope that this will eventually lead to the decline of the zoo. Being a Smartypants and with the benefit hind sight I can say "Whatever did the Victorians think they were doing when they removed animals from their habitat", but they did not have the facilities we do today. I was born under Pisces, so I cursed (or blessed) with seeing both sides of arguments. One part of me thinks that doggy day care is ridiculous, you will be relieved to know that the other side of me thinks "It is a way of allowing people who couldn't otherwise have a dog in their life, have a dog". I do believe that having a pet is a wonderful privilege and don't see why people should be denied just because they need to go out and earn a crust. Most children go to some form of daycare. I absolutely deplore the idea of a dog or any animal as a possession. I cannot get my head around people who buy a dog because it is fashionable and abandon it when the whim changes. They must be emotionally bankrupt if they have not formed an attachment to a creature that lives with them. Don't know if I have answered Julie's original point, but good discussions do move around. Very often threads change as everyone puts their penny worth in and I believe that is exactly how it should be.