I met a woman walking her 12 month old boxer yesterday while taking Doug for his pm wobble. i could hear her coming for a while because all I could hear was the CM style Shhhhhhh sssssssssssh as the poor dog pulled so hard its front feet were off the ground. I said hello and she started to be dragged around by her dog who was desperate to talk to Doug. She said is he ok so I said yes fine but he's a bit old, She then hoisted the dog of the ground by its neck and move away. I told her it was ok and Doug just looked amused by the young thing. She move off a little way and went through the full CM kick to the ribs and SHH sssssssssssh ssssssssh route which just made her look like a cruel prat and the dog just looked upset. aparently her dog just won't learn and she's been doing this for 12 months ??? I smiled and said perhaps you should try some different training ideas? She looked at me like i was mad a dragged this poor suffering young dog off for its walk(public hanging more like). Did i do the right thing perhaps i should have done or said more. I wsa just in shock and horrified she was clearly damaging the dogs neck. Why won't people try something different if the stuff they are doing doesn't work and is clearly harmful. I'm going to go out at the same time today and try to get her talking and be really friendly. then maybe i could sort of say how hard it is to manage big dogs and say how I did it? what would anyone else suggest. Its worked a couple of times and I can be pretty friendly if i have a goal in mind.
I would try, for sure - I always do. I am almost never successful, but I always try. I have most success when I can get someone walking/training alongside Charlie, and obviously since Charlie is a bit trained, they usually end up asking me how I got Charlie not to [pull/jump up/run off] and then you can say "oh well, just like this, it worked really well"....and take it from there. You could suggest a front fastening harness as a start? If I see people really verbally abusing a dog, or causing it pain, I do speak up - almost guaranteed that I'll get told to mind my own business, but I don't care and hope that the person at least gives it a bit of thought later. I think we are obliged to try, really. Just to try to help the dog a bit.
I'm awful at this because I can get very cross and passionate about it, which of course ends up with people on the defensive. If you can lead by example, like Julie says, or keep it friendly, you have far, far more chance of success. If you can offer your experiences, even if they're not true "Oh, yes, my dog used to be a horrendous puller/lead chewer/whatever, and here's the only thing that I found worked, after trying everything else", then you may get their ear. Good luck, I hope you can bring her round to a less traumatic way of dealing with her dog.
I agree and I will try if i can just for the dog. I may even give her a harness if she wants to try one i've got an old small one of Rorys most people really don't like it and I've been told to"mind my own business" by the wife? of a man who was beating his staffy in public. I told her i had to because neither she or her OH could mind there kindly or humanly.
I have to say though, I really don't take kindly to being given advice by strangers myself. It's such a tricky thing.... I remember at the beach just after Charlie came off rest this summer (Charlie was a horror on his lead at the beach during that time) I was walking passed a dog off lead down the path back to the carpark, and Charlie was playing up. I was trying to 'just keep walking', ignoring Charlie's efforts to break the world record for being the nuttiest dog ever, and the lady who owned the off lead dog kept trying to give Charlie treats and telling me I needed to let my dog say hello to other dogs. She actually followed me back to my car, trying to tell me how good it is to train with treats. I told her to go away.
You seem to have an uncanny ability to stay calm in the face of idiocy, Julie. I can't imagine you were anything but civil And, at least your lady, misguided as she may have been, was trying to advocate positive methods. You may have been slightly quicker to tell her to "go away" if she'd advocated a short, sharp kick to the ribs!
Obviously a CM fan I don't mind being given advice if it's good and helpful I gave a harness to a couple in our village as their 14 month old very over weight Labrador had pulled them both off their feet I asked them nicely a few weeks before had they thought of a front fastening harness as they were using a back fastening with no effect. I explained how helpful one is with walking Charlie explaining how awful he used to be on lead. I also explained that it was only a tool that they still needed to train heel work, I showed them how to use the harness, to get her attention, add a cue word and treat. I saw them out a few weeks ago and they were much happier and enjoying their walks and Skye was doing much better. They were very thankful so I'm pleased I plucked up the courage to make the suggestion. x
I've been thinking about buying a front fastening harness for Ripple but I do have some reservations. Firstly we are having quite a lot of success with loose lead walking and I don't want to spoil that, but there are occasions when we go out and meet a lot of dogs that he pulls terribly and I'm fearful for his neck. Secondly I do have a harness, but not the front fastening one, and getting it on him can be quite a struggle (think a load of cheese ). But as he is getting bigger and stronger I wonder whether it would be an advantage to try one. I've had a brief look at the Mekuti but as it's quite expensive I don't want to make a mistake. What would the forum consider a good one to buy?
Have a look at the Happy at Heel Harness, there is a thread on the forum with some reviews from other uses. I use one myself on my large rescue Lab x Pointer Charlie with success. x
I personally think that if you are able to continue to train loose lead walking, then don't go for a front fastening harness. I do think they are 'the least bad idea' when, for whatever reason, people are really, really struggling with loose lead and the dog would be better of with some kind of 'device' rather than to continue to pull, or not get any walks. But they are not without their disadvantages. I think any mechanical or aversive device is going to slow down your overall progress, and does have an impact on the dog. I'm not convinced that any front fastening harness won't have an effect on the way the dog walks, for example. If you are just fearful for his neck, then buy a back fastening harness to use time to time. What harness is it that you have now? I'd also say if you are already having trouble getting a harness on your dog at all, then you very well may find that you have to give up using them altogether - in which case, throwing all your efforts into loose lead is the way to go. Nothing beats just training if you are able to manage to do that - it's the best way in the end.
^^^^ Frustratingly as the owner of a sled dog in spaniel clothing Julie is absolutely right. All that happens with Obi on front fastening is we end up whirling round each other. So it's much easier if I just give up going from A to B and train my little heart out. I drive him somewhere for a run and the rest of the time we train
I have managed to come down with Bitten Tongue Syndrome a few times. I don't appreciate unsolicited advice much myself and you know the saying, "advice is worth what you pay for it." That's not necessarily true of course but a few times I have managed to hold my tongue. If the lady has been trying the same method for 12 months and keeps on with it I doubt you would have had any affect. I like your idea of trying to meet up with her again and walk along together. Have a conversation. Maybe she'll ask how you got your dog to be so good? Though I suspect if your dog is much older than hers she'll assume he just magically grew into good leash walking.
The Happy at Heel is not really a front fastening harness as the attachment rings are at the side on both sides enabling you to attach your lead to which ever side you prefer to walk your dog. It does not change the way the dog walks at all because it can't. I have watched this very carefully and Charlie walks exactly the same as if he were on a flat collar and lead. I have used other harnesses included a back which I don't like at all and Y shaped which are useless, in my opinion. The Happy at Heel is the best one I have personally used and I am very pleased with it. The only reason I use a harness at all is Charlie is a big boy and I am a little girl and it's for my safety more than anything I can walk him on a flat collar and slack lead most of the time but if he sees a Pheasant well training is still in progress!!
No, it is a front fastening harness Helen, the lead runs across the front of the dog. It does look a good one though, and if I were going to use one I'd definitely look at one like that. I'm glad you are happy with it. Back fastening harnesses are only useless if you want or need an assistance to stop your dog pulling. They are useless at that, yes, because that's not what they are for. The studies done on the gait changes of front fastening harnesses have detected the changes on a gait analysis machine. Although I can clearly see a gait change in my Charlie, it's possible you wouldn't be able to see them. It's quite understandable that you want to use such a harness for safety, of course, and that may very well be the best thing for you and Charlie.
I always try and be friendly in order to engage in some kind of conversation but I get funny looks or comments. I just hope that they do give it some thought.
Going to give this a lot of thought as I can see everyone's point of view. JulieT I have a back fastening harness made by the RAC which is dual purpose for car or walking. I originally bought it for the car but as we have a crate in the car I haven't needed to use it for that. I can appreciate that it is probably better to persevere with loose lead walking on the collar but I do have concerns for Ripple's neck. He does come back to me when he pulls and I stop when nothing exciting is going on, however if he spots a tasty morsel, another dog or an interesting person he can shoot off to the end of the lead at a rate of knots which must jerk his neck as it certainly pulls me with enormous force. Getting a harness on him needs a lot of work so I think I will work hard on that while I consider whether a front fastening harness would be a good idea. Certainly the effect on gait is a concern. Helen - thank you for your information, if I do go down the harness route the 'happy at heel' would be the one I would choose. Lots of thinking to do.
Why does Ripple jerk his neck in a back fastening harness? He shouldn't do - the harness should distribute any shock across the dog's chest and shoulders, there should be no shock on the neck - that's the point of a back fastening harness.
Ah, ok - I've now looked up the RAC's harness. I wouldn't use that harness for walking - I'm afraid I wouldn't use it in a car, either. It will put pressure on a dog's neck. This is what I would consider a good back fastening walking harness to be. There is no chance of this type of harness putting any pressure on a dog's neck - Charlie's red collar is nothing to do with the harness. charlie boy by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
There is an article here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/top-three-harnesses-for-labrador-retrievers/
