We are out on location with our whistle, now Pippa says guard your whistle and don't let anyone else use it. Here's the question, David walks Charlie 0600 every day off lead (sshhhh don't want to tempt fate) and when Charlie comes running towards him, YES I did say running towards him ;D this would be a perfect opportunity to blow the recall whistle to reinforce it. Is it OK for David to take his whistle and take over on walks? sorry if this is a stupid question but as always I don't want to get this wrong and maybe I take things too literally ??? Helen xx
Re: WHISTLE question?? If you are both walking him he will have to learn both whistle calls, yours and your husbands. My husband has a whistle, the way he blows it is different to me but the dogs recall to him the same as they do to me. I would guard the whistle from people who would 'mis-use' it, i.e. blow it when there is no chance the dog will obey, or don't follow through with the right consequence for obeying or disobeying the whistle.
Re: WHISTLE question?? both me and my son have got whistles,......he recalls back to both of us,......at the moment we are only doing recall in the house and garden,.... even my grandson when he is at my house as the whistle, he gets the best recall of all,..... i would say i have done the most practise and i get the worse recall
Re: WHISTLE question?? Oh thank you so much. Heidrun what are the consequences for disobeying the whistle?? Only David and I have whistles our children absolutely are in no doubt they do not touch them Helen x
Re: WHISTLE question?? oh i must be different then, .....its a family pet, ......my son is 23 .. my grandson as been involved with jasper from day one, every jab every vet visit, .... i want logan to be able to recall jasper , ...so he sits on a chair and calls him back to him in the garden, ..... i want logan to have as much involvement with jasper as possible, at the end of the day he is a family pet .......he also does the c/t with him to be honest its my personal choice.... we just want a well behaved dog that will respond to us all, not just one of us ......
Re: WHISTLE question?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=2185.msg19887#msg19887 date=1375467423] Oh thank you so much. Heidrun what are the consequences for disobeying the whistle?? Only David and I have whistles our children absolutely are in no doubt they do not touch them Helen x [/quote] What do you do when you call Charlie and he doesn't come, even though you are sure he fully understands the command but chooses not to come?
Re: WHISTLE question?? So far he has only not recalled to 2 whistle commands and that was my fault and we are still training, so I did not take any action and I am not sure what I am supposed to do anyway :-\ to a verbal command I don't do anything if he disobeyes as I don't want to set back my training. Everything I have read says do not get cross with your dog if he doesn't obey a recall as he will be less likely to want to return - Is this incorrect? Helen x
Re: WHISTLE question?? I think I need a hint on this too Helen. My tactic to date has been to put away the whistle for a few days or even a week, then restart it with the "certain" recalls again. I don't know what to do otherwise I haven't done much long-line stuff though. I think my long line isn't long enough or light enough as she is always angelic when its on and doesn't stray at all : jac
Re: WHISTLE question?? No two trainers will give you the exact same answer on this one. In the 'old days' gundog trainers always 'ran down' a dog that failed to obey a recall and physically reprimanded/punished him at or as near as possible to, the place where the dog ignored the recall. This was how I was taught, and how all gundog trainers worked thirty or forty years ago. I know plenty of spaniel trainers that still use these methods (though they are gradually becoming less willing to demonstrate or recommend them due to changing public attitudes), and there is no question that these methods can, under certain circumstances, create a dog that will recall reliably. Those circumstances usually involve having a dog that has not got 'the bit between his teeth' ie has never really got out of control, and having a dog that is somewhat intimidated, or in awe of, its owner. This means that once the angry owner pursues the dog, the dog will become afraid, stop running, and take up a submissive position on his back or side. However, as I point out in the book you are working from, punishing a failed recall accurately is fraught with difficulty, and many, if not most, dog owners are simply incapable of doing it in a way that achieve any lasting effect other than creating a dog which is 'hand shy' or reluctant to recall at all. A pet dog that is not used to punishment, and not intimidated by his owner chasing after him is highly unlikely to stop, and no-one other than an olympic athlete stands much chance of running down a fit gundog. This is why some traditional trainers resort to e-collars with this kind of dog. Using modern methods, it is important to 'back up' a stage if you find the dog ignoring the recall. The objective being to create and automatic trained response through repetition and through extinction of old, bad, habits. Both methods, old and new, require a good deal of environmental control to get the best results in the shortest space of time. Retraining recall in a dog that has had previous experience of bolting or chasing is always a long, long (sometimes very long) process. Pippa
Re: WHISTLE question?? Thanks Pippa, the 2 recalls on separate occassions Charlie ignored were totally my fault, I blew my whistle just as he became distracted so it was very bad timing. He is doing brilliantly as we work through your book. We left calling away from dogs as know one to help, we will have to do this when we are finally out and about when the opportunities arrise, so we don't think we necessarily need to 'back up' a stage, as the very next day we took him to the park he was 100% and even played with a ball for a bit so great interation also. When we have worked through all the exercises in On Location we will step it up a gear and take him to a field then another new location and work through all the exercises again. We also do obedience work and lots of heel work during our new trips out. We are so paranoid about getting this right that we proof well over 100% on each exercise : We are 10 months into Total Recall so we know it's a long, long process and we are not there yet, if ever , but he is doing so well and I can see his split second response to the whistle. The level of obedience training we do and hand feeding him his meals for this has helped enormously and we feel he has calmed down a little, he can even be trusted off lead at times during his walk. We always take him out HUNGRY too. We really hope that we are doing enough, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be recalling him from a potential chase when he is off lead, which he will be Thanks Helen x
Re: WHISTLE question?? Sounds like you are doing really well Helen. Come on leaps and bounds ( ) Impressed as always. jac
Re: WHISTLE question?? CORRECTION:- Of course we hope he DOESN'T chase any more and he will become a reformed character. I don't mean calling him off a potential chase now, definitely not for a VERY LONG time and certainly not until we have completed Total Recall and beyond. Sorry didn't want to give the wrong impression or that we are being irresponsible, just meant that we hope the whistle WILL work in such a situation. OK stop digging now you know what I mean Helen xx Thanks Jac, please don't be impressed, if you could see me out with Charlie in one hand and my Total Recall book, Winnie the Pooh bag stuffed with training line, chicken, balls, squeaky ball etc. etc. in the other, impressed is the last thing you would be believe me, heaven knows what the locals think of me ;D ;D Helen xx
Re: WHISTLE question?? I'm a bit confused about the whistle question and not letting anyone else use it. I thought the whole point of the whistle is that it remains constant, so the commands don't get muddled? Granted, we only have two commands we use with the whistle - pip pip for recall and a long descending peeeeeeeeep for stop and sit, both close and at a distance. Both these commands work fantastically, and I really believe the stop and sit could be a life-saver, particularly in our hilly, forested area which is teeming with mountain bikers careering around at the weekends... As a result, not only do the other half and I both use the whistle, but I also encourage my daughter and our neighbour who walks Pops to use it too. They rave about how well it works. Should I not be letting them use it?? :-\
Re: WHISTLE question?? In many families, unfortunately, one persons tries very hard to train the dog, whilst the other family members try very hard to undo all the training by using commands inappropriately (ie, when they have little chance of success). This is not to say that your family would be this way, it's just the way life works sometimes. Not everyone cares about, or understands, or wants to learn about, the ins and outs of successful dog training. One of the great benefits of a whistle in dog training, is that the person responsible for training the dog, can stop other people unravelling all their good work by keeping control of the whistle. If your family members understand the principles of using the whiste, or any other cue, then giving them a whistle, or lending them yours, is absolutely fine. ;D In fact a nice way of giving a lively young dog some exercise, and improve his recall, is to call him back and forth between two people that have a whistle and a bag of treats each, and to gradually space out the distance between them as the dog gets fitter and better at the game. Pippa
