Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9422.msg135622#msg135622 date=1420672079] c), d) and e) I hold my hand up too...a) if I'm lucky, but b) only on a bad day... ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Ah....I was thinking after I posted that, would you take it personally? Wasn't meant in that way. Think I fall into band b) myself What I meant to say was I guess you might have met a few people like that :-[
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? Not at all! The list was most definitely written from personal experience! ;D ;D ;D
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? I have my suspicion but not sure Lisa....who's gonna spill the beans?
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? Oh, sorry. Positive Gundogs. If you are on facebook, it's worth a look...
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? Guessed right then. I just dip in and out. It's too quick and bitty for me to follow.
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? Snow bunny, I have been thinking that more and more now. Sometimes I feel I am not of value to my dog if I don't have something he wants. It gets disheartening considering all the effort I put in trying to understand him, making the time and also buying him his treats/toys/bones.
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=TigersMom link=topic=9422.msg136765#msg136765 date=1421167165] Snow bunny, I have been thinking that more and more now. Sometimes I feel I am not of value to my dog if I don't have something he wants. It gets disheartening considering all the effort I put in trying to understand him, making the time and also buying him his treats/toys/bones. [/quote] Like I said 'cupboard love'. It's true, but I don't think it's a negative. The relationship we have with dogs is primarily provider - all other things are extras, I think.
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? You do have to be realistic about the nature of dogs. If your dog won't respond to you without knowing you have something he wants, your training is at fault, not your dog. A dog that does respond, is just trained. This article: how dogs learn, is really useful. http://totallydogtraining.com/the-three-consequences/
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? I have to confess to finding the group very hard work at times. And have come close to shutting it down on numerous occasions! I feel more like a referee each day This is true Fiona, and I have tried to provide links, resources etc. I've posted numerous links to articles explaining the language and so on. I'll probably put another one up tonight or tomorrow. But I suspect the people that read them are the people that least need to. Sorry you weren't made welcome - that is a shame.
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9422.msg136808#msg136808 date=1421178866] If your dog won't respond to you without knowing you have something he wants, your training is at fault, not your dog. A dog that does respond, is just trained. [/quote] Don't all dogs respond to something or other, whether it's food, a ball, toy, dummy or to hunt etc. so does this mean that most dogs are not trained or have I misunderstood for a change? :-\
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=editor link=topic=9422.msg136815#msg136815 date=1421180648] ......But I suspect the people that read them are the people that least need to. [/quote] This is always the way! Talking to my daughter tonight, explaining why it's NOT ok for her to have an Instagram account. The general gist was; some people are not very nice, you can't always tell in advance who these will be and the anonymity and lack of accountability makes social network interactions particularly prone to turning nasty. I did, however, hold up the Forum as a model of Internet positivity due to it's excellent moderation and overwhelming sense of helpfulness when she was asking about my internet groups. Odd though how it's so difficult to transfer this over to facebook. I think because facebook comments are so transitory and hard to track back. And can be done so quickly so the hand engages before the brain!
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=charlie link=topic=9422.msg136848#msg136848 date=1421186037] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9422.msg136808#msg136808 date=1421178866] If your dog won't respond to you without knowing you have something he wants, your training is at fault, not your dog. A dog that does respond, is just trained. [/quote] Don't all dogs respond to something or other, whether it's food, a ball, toy, dummy or to hunt etc. so does this mean that most dogs are not trained or have I misunderstood for a change? :-\ [/quote] They do respond, yes, of course. But if they only respond when they know you've got a reward then I'd say you don't have a trained response, or you have an inadequately proofed response, or the reward is part of the cue, possibly. The underlying idea is that the dog repeats an action that it finds rewarding - I think of the aim being this is an automatic response. Of course, if you stop rewarding altogether the dog will give up the behaviour (eventually). But that's different from the dog knowing you've got treats, or a ball, and only responding in those circumstances. Otherwise, you are totally stuck if you forget your treat bag...
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? I was thinking this the other day. It took over a year and doing reading, practice and talking to people to figure out that training isn't a few weeks or months deal. You have to consistently train and it is a LIFE LONG deal. I think many times dogs aren't trying to be stubborn or trying to ignore you. He/she simply may have forgotten since training was not done on a consistent basis. Makes complete sense really!
Re: Why does your dog listen to you? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9422.msg136855#msg136855 date=1421187667] [quote author=charlie link=topic=9422.msg136848#msg136848 date=1421186037] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9422.msg136808#msg136808 date=1421178866] If your dog won't respond to you without knowing you have something he wants, your training is at fault, not your dog. A dog that does respond, is just trained. [/quote] Don't all dogs respond to something or other, whether it's food, a ball, toy, dummy or to hunt etc. so does this mean that most dogs are not trained or have I misunderstood for a change? :-\ [/quote] They do respond, yes, of course. But if they only respond when they know you've got a reward then I'd say you don't have a trained response, or you have an inadequately proofed response, or the reward is part of the cue, possibly. The underlying idea is that the dog repeats an action that it finds rewarding - I think of the aim being this is an automatic response. Of course, if you stop rewarding altogether the dog will give up the behaviour (eventually). But that's different from the dog knowing you've got treats, or a ball, and only responding in those circumstances. Otherwise, you are totally stuck if you forget your treat bag... [/quote] This is 100% what I understand from what I have read (sadly lacking in real experience to date). Positive training methods generally need a lure to start off with, which turns into a reward very quickly, which then gets faded over time. The treat can change from food (which is an easy thing for training most dogs to start with), to a toy, other game or whatever over time, but as the response to the cue becomes more ingrained, it's more "instinctive" (wrong word, but you know what I mean), so the dog responds whether or not there's an obvious treat. That's what I understand "trained" to mean. [quote author=editor link=topic=9422.msg136815#msg136815 date=1421180648] I have to confess to finding the group very hard work at times. And have come close to shutting it down on numerous occasions! I feel more like a referee each day This is true Fiona, and I have tried to provide links, resources etc. I've posted numerous links to articles explaining the language and so on. I'll probably put another one up tonight or tomorrow. But I suspect the people that read them are the people that least need to. Sorry you weren't made welcome - that is a shame. [/quote] I think you're right in that the people who are most willing to learn are generally the ones who do the research and reading around a forum or group, so have already come upon various and conflicting concepts.... those that really would benefit most are the ones who think they're doing it right already. It's the way of the world. It's not that I wasn't made to feel welcome (well, no-one could say I was, but maybe my first post wasn't the best), but I certainly found it a whole lot more confrontational than here, and then as I read more, as you say, there seems to be a whole lot of moderation needed that I certainly don't see here. BUT, Facebook is a whole different world to a forum where you can express yourself in a more verbose way. It's fascinating, why people become more antagonistic in one online environment to another. Someone should do a study. I'm sure many people already are! I'm sure there are plenty of people in the group with a wealth of advice that I can learn from as time goes on. If I didn't believe that to be true, I would have left already. I look forward to being able to join into the conversation with some experience behind me
