Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Im apologising straight away if I repeat anything you already know or have tried but I've been thinking. (not necessarily a good thing. ) Gem sees your husband as the big scary dominant man who must be obeyed. No offence Im sure he's a very,very nice man but he has to make Gem sure of that. I was wondering if it might help if he tried to mimic the behaviour and body language of a submissive dog. No I haven't gone nuts. ;D A submissive dog will not approach a more dominant dog head on it will approach from an angle. A submissive dog will not look a more dominant dog directly in the eye. A submissive dog will use appeasing behaviours to calm itself and the more dominant dog. Things like licking it's lips, yawning, constantly glancing away so breaking eye contact. It's trying to tell the more dominant dog its ok, don't worry, I'm no threat. That's what your husband wants to tell Gem. He might feel daft approaching the dog from the side licking his lips and yawning all the timr but it is calming for a nervous dog especially the avoiding direct eye contact. The other thing a submissive dog will do is make itself smaller. If for example you watch tv in an evening in the same room as Gem I was thinking your husband could try sitting on the floor at Gems level. The first time he sits on the floor Gem might freak out straight away. Dogs don't like change. If he does then your husband immediately gets back on his normal seat. Next night try again until Gen accepts him sat on the floor. Then build up the time he sits on the floor from a couple of minutes to all evening. Once Gem doesn't bother about him sitting there your husband could start to gently interact. Perhaps place just one treat as far away from him near Gem. No pressure. Build up the treats gradually over a few nights. Then go back to one treat but moved nearer to your husband. Continue as before then move nearer until the treat is in his hand. Hopefully Gem will stop going back to his bed and lie by your husband waiting for the next treat and even better fall asleep next to him. Then you know a dog is calm. Only increase the level of difficulty at Gems pace. If he starts looking stressed go back a step. With nervous dogs you need to try to keep them below threshold below the point of panic so they can learn and their behaviour can begin to adjust. Gosh I've waffled sorry and I bet it's stuff you've tried but I've not been able to stop thinking about poor Gem and just wanted to try and help.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? I would definitely try what Jen has suggested. I also just wanted to congratulate you on the work and love that you are putting into helping your dog have a normal life. I take my hat off to you.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Doesn't it make you furious on behalf of Gem though? Who would mistreat a dog so badly, in the name of 'training' him as a gun dog? Dreadful.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Feeling so sorry for Gem and the previous experience he has endured. Very glad he has found you, as you clearly care very much and are prepared to keep working and trying patiently to resolve some of his issues. Good on you. I say
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? sorry have only just responded but been out of things for a few days. Thank you all so much for your comforting, positive words. It's easier to stay positive when you have so many people rooting for you!! We definitely won't give up. We are trying your suggestions but only slowly, one at a time. He doesn't like change as you have seen. Little improvement 1: Gem has started to come to breakfast table (walking in a relaxed gait) to my husband to 'ask' for food (no 'slithering' or cowering - and yes, I know, we shouldn't encourage begging at table but any positive interaction is welcomed with a fanfare of trumpets!!!) Little improvement 2: Still on eating - this time treats. when my husband offers him a treat and says to him, "What do you say?" he raises his paw. He does this for me but would not do it for my husband previously. Has always been very nervous with him when asked to do something different. Small changes but I think significant and heart warming for us. We are now going to try the sitting of floor as we watch TV. He does come to my husband when commanded but lies stifflyand tensly on the floor while he is stroked then leaps back to basket when stroking finished. Maybe floor level will get him to relax. Thanks again everyone - sorry to ramble, and Jen, please don't apologize it's wonderful to know you care enough to write so much. and Kateincornwall - we hope we get the same success as you. and yes, Karen, it does make me furious. He is such a lovely, gentle dog - it's heart breaking to see him so fearful and it needn't have been the case!!!
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Those improvements are fantastic. Great work When you sit on the floor (good idea) to watch TV, have your husband toss treats out now and again. He shouldn't look at Gem, and don't give Gem any commands to come closer. Make the decision to approach or not always Gem's voluntary choice (for now). You're doing a fab job
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Really well done, baby steps all the way and you will get there I`m sure, you have the right attitude and thats half the battle won
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? You call them little improvements but I think they are very impressive especially when you think what Gem was like when you first got him. ;D I was going to say the same as Rachael. Always let Gem make the first move and very slow, calm movements from your husband no sudden movements. You can see improvements so you know it's working just keep going as you have been and Gem will get there ;D
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Hi, and welcome from me, Willow (11mths) and Jack (10 yrs in July). Poor Gem, I so feel for all of you as I know what you are going through. I got Jack when he was 13 mths old and got the exact same story - bred as a search and rescue dog but "wasn't up to the training" - he was starved and kept in an out building so you can guess the shock the poor dog got when he came into my house and I turned the telly on! However, he was more than terrified of men - he was petrified and would either run from them or seriously snap at them. He could even tell the difference between men and women who were approaching from a fair distance. He was also terrified of anyone who smoked including women - so I'm guessing it was a man who basically tortured him and he smoked. He was also terrified of the garden hose, so watering the garden or washing the car was interesting :-\ Loads of other behavioural issues but to cut long story short, it took years for Jack to completely settle - it probably didn't help that I was living alone (apart from Teal my other lab - now passed) so he was generally just with me and Teal and did not get to socialise with too many men. I suppose moral of story is that it will pass but you will need patience but it is so worth it. I now look back at how Jack was 9 years ago and think thank goodness I stuck by him as he is such a gent now and loves everyone, just how a lab should be (apart from when he's getting eaten, jumped on, slept on or altogether tortured by a pesky little teenage lab lol) Good luck with all your training, you will learn loads on here Shell, Jack & Willow
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? I just beggars belief that anyone wants their dog trained so much that they're prepared to treat it like this. No training is important enough to mentally scar a dog in this manner. Well done to you for all your hard work. You've got to celebrate the tiny improvements, they do mean a huge amount.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Hi Ritasal and welcome to the forum. It's good to hear that you are making a little bit of progress even if it is just tiny little steps at the moment. I don't know what is at the root of the problem, it could be just that your dog is not that comfortable with living in the house if he was brought up in a kennel environment. I think it is wrong to jump to conclusions that he has been harshly or unfairly treated in the past. Not all dogs will make it as gundogs. The reasons dogs fail are manyfold, and most of the time it has nothing to do with their training. I have a rescue dog who had several pet homes before he came to me, which didn't suit him at all. He came with a lot of baggage, but to be honest I have got no idea what made him the nervous jumpy creature he was at the beginning. He has improved a lot in the 3 years I have had him but some things, like his nervousness of strange men will probably never change. I hope Gem will continue to relax around your husband. Good luck.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Thank you all again. Special thanks to Shell for such encouragement. Heidrun thanks for such interesting comments. I don't suppose we will ever know why he is like he is - as long as he turns out well in the end!! I think we now realize we're in for a long haul but we also know it will be worth it. We are going on a doggy holiday next week. 6 adults and 4 dogs in a remote cottage in Scotland!! Gem knows 2 of the other dogs and has met all the adults so he should be fine. All 3 other dogs are very lively and confident so hope some of it will rub off on Gem. He's been on one holiday before when we took him to a beach cottage - he absolutely loved it - on and off the beach all day. He loves the sea.
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? I hope you have a lovely holiday and that Gem enjoyes himself with all of those dogs to play with. I hope Gem will be fine with your male friends and maybe gain some confidence. Let us know how you get on x
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? He will have a blast and I`m sure will gain confidence with all the other dogs, have a wonderful time, all of you
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Have a lovely break and come back and let us know how you get on x
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Hope you have a great time! Will be looking out for an update 8)
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Good hear there has been improvement, it's so encouraging to see these changes, even if they are small ones. Slow and steady, and you'll get there!
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Hi everyone - so sorry for delay in response - holiday was delayed and only got back last week. It was a fabulous holiday for everyone. Gem loved it and I'm sure he would have somersaulted the whole week if he was able to . All 4 dogs got on very well and when a very friendly farm dog came to join them Gem put his paws on him and growled!!! The first time I have heard him growl in the 17 months we have had him!!! The other adults all knew Gem before we went and could not believe the change in him. One guy there who Gem has always circled cautiously couldn't believe it when he was licked and jumped all over. He was much better with my husband - actually approached him and licked his hand while he was reading!! Big breakthrough. However, the bad news is back home he has gone back to how he was before the holiday apart from one slight improvement. He always took treats from my husband when called but now he actually approaches him without being called when we are at breakfast or my husband rustles the treat bag. WE are still edging forward then!! Thanks for all your interest and good wishes. Ritasal
Re: Will we ever modify his behaviour??? Even gradual improvement is wonderful and a great achievement So glad that you had a lovely holiday.
