Since her spay, Willow's barking at people has become a lot worse. Before that, I had effectively used a "look at that" technique to reduce it to almost a non-occurrence, but now it's really bad again. I guess it's just a case of going back to basics and, if I catch her looking at someone before she barks, C&Ting her, but I'm not sure how to handle it if I miss that and she does bark? For example, yesterday on our evening walk, she was off-lead, we came round a corner and there were two people walking up the slope on touring skis. She ran towards them, barking and barking. I couldn't call her back and I couldn't get to her quickly because I was on snow shoes. As I approached her, she would bounce away from me and closer towards the people. What should I have done? Walked off in the other direction, maybe? As I think about it, it's always unexpected people in places they normally aren't that she is barking at - a guy up a ladder; some snowboarders with their equipment taking a shortcut down a path that's normally completely empty; a runner on the pistes early morning. So maybe it's a fear thing? Or "protecting" me? Is that a real thing? She always has a waggy tail when she's doing it, but her hackles will be raised and some people are obviously alarmed by it. Any advice on how to deal with it once the barking has started?
Re: Willow barking at people I think from a training point of view, you have to concentrate on preventing reactivity (if that's what it is) before it starts, afterwards is a bit late to do much but manage the situation. Did you get the book, Control Unleashed? It would be worth reading the whole thing. It might help. I'd say once your dog is running towards people barking, it's too late to do anything much. I find it very alarming to have a dog run up to me barking, and it's just not something you can risk - scared people might lash out at your dog. I don't think you should have walked away, that would definitely not be fair on the people Willow was barking at. The only thing you could do (which presumably you did) was get hold of her as quickly as possible. It's just about impossible to speculate on what might be happening with Willow - it might just be a socialisation thing? She just didn't see enough men up ladders, people on normally empty paths, and so on. In which case, it is fear/alarm based. Although, Charlie used to run up to people - his motivation was simply to say hello because he loved people. Isolated people were always more interesting than people in busy areas. They were just more obvious, would catch his attention, and he'd think "S/he looks interesting! I'll go say hi!". But he didn't bark. That might just be because he doesn't bark though. In Charlie's case, it was simply a standard training point and there was nothing whatsoever complicated about it - I just trained him to stay close to me and not leg it to say hi to other people or dogs. Footballs are still a work in progress.
Re: Willow barking at people Tatze did this once - a bloke was doing tai che in his bare feet in the middle of the field on the frosty grass. I thought it was weird so maybe she picked it up off me? I didn't know what to do, so I ran in the other direction and called her. It worked. But I have no idea if that was the right thing to do.
Re: Willow barking at people [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10139.msg148490#msg148490 date=1425977774] I think from a training point of view, you have to concentrate on preventing reactivity (if that's what it is) before it starts, afterwards is a bit late to do much but manage the situation. Did you get the book, Control Unleashed? It would be worth reading the whole thing. It might help. [/quote] I haven't because Amazon don't deliver it here. But, I've just found it elsewhere for the Kindle and just purchased it. I think I'll be spending most of today reading that (who needs to work?). [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10139.msg148490#msg148490 date=1425977774] I find it very alarming to have a dog run up to me barking, and it's just not something you can risk - scared people might lash out at your dog. [/quote] I know It is alarming and I find it upsetting that it would scare someone. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10139.msg148490#msg148490 date=1425977774] I don't think you should have walked away, that would definitely not be fair on the people Willow was barking at. The only thing you could do (which presumably you did) was get hold of her as quickly as possible. [/quote] I meant in a running backwards (difficult in snow shoes), calling in a squeaky voice kind of way like you would when a dog isn't recalling. But, yes, I got hold of her as quickly as I could. The people in that case luckily weren't fazed in the slightest and were laughing at the "scary puppy", but other could be, and have been, understandably taken aback. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10139.msg148490#msg148490 date=1425977774] Although, Charlie used to run up to people - his motivation was simply to say hello because he loved people. Isolated people were always more interesting than people in busy areas. They were just more obvious, would catch his attention, and he'd think "S/he looks interesting! I'll go say hi!". But he didn't bark. That might just be because he doesn't bark though. In Charlie's case, it was simply a standard training point and there was nothing whatsoever complicated about it - I just trained him to stay close to me and not leg it to say hi to other people or dogs. Footballs are still a work in progress. [/quote] In general, she's really, really good, and won't run up to people. In fact, I think it was just yesterday that I put in my training log about how she was off-lead, saw someone she knew and looked back at me to "ask permission" to go and say hi. People she doesn't know that don't give her any attention are just boring. It's these random occurrences that are the issue. I think see if I can get some people to set up some unusual situations for us to work with.
Re: Willow barking at people I'm with Mags, Hattie has twice barked at two different men in flat caps, she never barks at anyone and to stop the barking I ran in the opposite direction and recalled her with a squeeky voice and it worked she got lots of praise and a jackpot treat I would rather stop the barking quickly then try to catch up with her whilst she was continually barking. I think Pippa advises the running in the opposite direction in Total Recall for this sort of situation, can't be sure though without checking. xx
Re: Willow barking at people Willow may well be going through the second fear period, I am sure you will be able to work her through it.
Re: Willow barking at people [quote author=Stacia link=topic=10139.msg148523#msg148523 date=1425984933] Willow may well be going through the second fear period, I am sure you will be able to work her through it. [/quote] This sounds like Maisie when she was Willows age. She suddenly started barking a random people, kids, scooters, bikes, etc. I spent time re-socialising her and walking in new areas, and it seemed to do the trick. She ran up to two ladies and just barked and barked. She hasn't done it again since!
Re: Willow barking at people Sounds more like unexpected events unsettled her and lead to her barking. If Juno is unsure of something, even things she has seen before, she stands and stares and does a little whine; luckily it's usually directed at cows in fields or rather cows in fields that weren't in that field before.
Re: Willow barking at people About the running backwards away from your dog - unless Fiona is in the habit of roping in unsuspecting strangers to be stooges to work on her recall, she was in the position of managing, not training, her dog. I particularly like Diana Stevens on the disadvantages of "‘Running away, calling!" in this situation. http://www.wylanbriar.com/behavioural-information/my-dog-runs-up-to-other-dogs/
Re: Willow barking at people It worked for me on the couple of occasions I've done it with Hattie and I didn't do it to look like I was doing something as stated in the article. Hattie is of course a mature dog and is not keen to have me walking away from her so she will immediately follow me - sorted Fiona said she couldn't get Willow back so she wasn't really managing her dog in that situation (sorry Fiona no offence meant I thought using stooges be it dogs, people on bikes, people appearing from round a corner etc. was part of recall training which is what this situation was about, so maybe Fiona could ask strangers to assist if they were willing of course :-\
Re: Willow barking at people [quote author=charlie link=topic=10139.msg148559#msg148559 date=1425998261] I thought using stooges be it dogs, people on bikes, people appearing from round a corner etc. was part of recall training [/quote] I really think it's best that these are set ups - faking it - so the people know they are involved! http://www.thelabradorsite.com/faking-it-a-labrador-training-strategy/
Re: Willow barking at people It worked with Tatze because she walks with me and any time I go out of sight she makes sure she finds me. I have done this with both dogs from very young (hiding so they have to find me) and was advised to do it with Gypsy from the day we started free running her. Neither go more than 20 yards away and always keep an eye out for where I am. When she started barking at the tai che bloke my instinct was to get her away asap - the best way to do that was to go quickly out of her sight. It worked. I think all dogs are different and what works with one won't with another. Tatze's recall is very good, but when suddenly and uncharacteristically 'alert' barking I felt that she'd be more likely to do the really ingrained behaviour (staying with me). I can see what Diane means but, at the same time, I don't think over-generalising is always the way ahead either. I wouldn't say never go in the other direction because that could prolong the problem. If quickly going away from the dogworks, then do it imo. (Neither of my dogs are in the least insecure, they stay with me because it's what they do - a totally ingrained habit)
Re: Willow barking at people I'm just popping on Fiona....my case is a bit different but Dex on his lead can be reactive to men he doesn't know ,if they stop and talk to me and get too close for his liking he will start barking.Initially I put distance between us and used to c&t for him being calm.Once I had a really strong 'look at me' I was able to use that to interrupt when I see him cranking up (his forehead wrinkles and he starts his huffing breathing) I tell the person to give me a sec and ask for a sit and basically stream him treats for staying sitting.He will relax then and be ok ....to be honest I haven't trained it out of him completely as I walk in very lonely places at very early times of the day,sometimes miles out and at times locals will track me in 4x4 cars......if they stop and try to talk to me I don't ask Dexter to sit ,so visually he looks a bit hoppity,and I know if they got too close or got out of the car he would bark at them and I'd let him! Probably not the most relevant reply but it's an example of interrupting something you don't want before it happens.....
Re: Willow barking at people From what Fiona has described would set ups work ? [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10139.msg148477#msg148477 date=1425976016] As I think about it, it's always unexpected people in places they normally aren't that she is barking at [/quote] [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10139.msg148502#msg148502 date=1425979554] In general, she's really, really good, and won't run up to people. In fact, I think it was just yesterday that I put in my training log about how she was off-lead, saw someone she knew and looked back at me to "ask permission" to go and say hi. People she doesn't know that don't give her any attention are just boring. It's these random occurrences that are the issue. [/quote] I think the only way set ups will work would be to do as Helen has suggested and ask strangers to help. From experience : I know that's not very easy so you need to use strangers with out them knowing. The difference though is willow is off lead which is a problem when trying to control the set up. Is there someone you know Fiona that willow doesn't that you could ask to help. If so I'd be tempted to set it up and try the running away backwards squeaking or whatever you need to do to get her away to see if that would work. I suggest this because the situations willow reacts to are so random and so difficult to recreate. You need an emergency exit and if you running backwards squeaking is that exit then use it. Once you've worked out an emergency exit you can start to work on the problem. You will be able to quickly get willow out if the situation so she drops below threshold then slowly move back towards the trigger but you will have control. I agree with Julie it's better to prevent reactivity than manage it but unfortunately, I know from bitter experience, that's not always possible. I'm not sure there is a way of preventing dogs becoming reactive towards people because of the insertion of numerous catheters. Once you have reactivity you need to manage it in a way that works for your dog.
Re: Willow barking at people Thanks for the replies, everyone. I need to rack my brains about anyone that may be able to help set up scenarios, and in the meantime, I'll just try to keep an eye on her and try to prevent the situation arriving. Most of the time, it's where things are unexpected, though - people appearing from nowhere - so it's a shock for both of us! Still, going back to basics and asking her to ignore anyone and everyone when we're walking can't do any harm and hopefully there will be some techniques in the Control Unleashed book that will help me.
